Women in the Church today

[apothanein kerdos]

The meaning of phobeo has indeed it

[firehill]

I just feel it is important to observe the direct meaning of scripture as best we can.

Yes to be more direct with you, the Bible never says that only a man can be a pastor. And this fact cannot be refuted because the Bible simply never says it. You may interpret what the Bible does say as you wish but that is another matter.

It quite directly says 1) that Phoebe was a deacon and 2) that a deacon must 'be faithful to his wife.' The Bible does not contradict itself either.

[st. Worm]

I just feel it is important to observe the direct meaning of scripture as best we can.

Yes to be more direct with you, the Bible never says that only a man can be a pastor. And this fact cannot be refuted because the Bible simply never says it. You may interpret what the Bible does say as you wish but that is another matter.

It quite directly says 1) that Phoebe was a deacon and 2) that a deacon must 'be faithful to his wife.' The Bible does not contradict itself either.

Yes, it certainly does infer that and quite strongly. How can a woman be silent and preach? How can a woman preach and have authority when the Bible teaches only male authority in church? You are in denial.

sw

[firehill]

I just feel it is important to observe the direct meaning of scripture as best we can.

Yes to be more direct with you, the Bible never says that only a man can be a pastor. And this fact cannot be refuted because the Bible simply never says it. You may interpret what the Bible does say as you wish but that is another matter.

It quite directly says 1) that Phoebe was a deacon and 2) that a deacon must 'be faithful to his wife.' The Bible does not contradict itself either.

Yes, it certainly does infer that and quite strongly. How can a woman be silent and preach? How can a woman preach and have authority when the Bible teaches only male authority in church? You are in denial.

sw

You are reponding with your opinion still. Quote the scriptures please and then address them. Where does the Bible teach 'only male authority in church'? Again, this is all your interpretation, opinion. I'm in denial? You don't want to hear the truth.

[apothanein kerdos]

Paul left Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop false teachers; 1Tim 1:3. The church there was fighting many false doctrines from the religion of Artemis because Ephesus was the world center of her worship. The mystery religions and Gnostic beliefs shared many of these same beliefs.

Here are five of these false doctrines widely believed in Ephesus:

1. Eve was created before Adam and received "special knowledge" when she ate the forbidden fruit.

2. Female "Mediators" passed this "special knowledge" on to men during sexual rites featuring intercourse.

3. Mediator women mixing sex with worship were called "Authenia" from the Greek word "Authenteo".

4. Warrior women called Amazons. who were superior to men, founded the city of Ephesus and set up the worship of the fertility goddess Artemis.

5. Artemis, whose name meant SAFE, could keep a woman safe during the dangers of childbirth.

Which makes absolutely no sense in the context. Why does Paul go from speaking about this to church authority in the next chapter? Why does Paul go from speaking about female attire in church to discussing false theologies? Lastly, not come out directly against it as he did in Acts 19? Furthermore, this does not explain why Paul prohibits females from having authority over men. Why not explain himself, why an all out prohibition?

The entire King James phrase "to usurp authority over" is incorrectly translated from one Greek word, "AUTHENTEIN". This word is used only once in the New Testament, and is called by an early instructor, "a coarse word". The "ein" ending tells us that it is the "to" form of a verb made from Authenteo, Strong's 831. A noun form of the same word is "Authenia" which is the term for the women "Mediators" mixing intercourse with religion! Paul is saying he won't allow women to teach or to ____ a man! Insert a coarse sexual word, which is our closest word to the Greek word "Authentein". At the time of Paul it meant to have sex as a part of worship--a joining of a man with a female mediator who represented the goddess being worshipped.

Wrong. This is not accurate at all. authenteo is the word free from it's construct. All authentein stands for is the tense the Greek word is written in, it does not make the word entirely different.

LIkewise, in secular Greek writings it only refers to autonomous authority (acting on ones own self interest) or placing authority over a person. In other words, this does not mean at all what your website is trying to insinuate.

[st. Worm]

I just feel it is important to observe the direct meaning of scripture as best we can.

Yes to be more direct with you, the Bible never says that only a man can be a pastor. And this fact cannot be refuted because the Bible simply never says it. You may interpret what the Bible does say as you wish but that is another matter.

It quite directly says 1) that Phoebe was a deacon and 2) that a deacon must 'be faithful to his wife.' The Bible does not contradict itself either.

Yes, it certainly does infer that and quite strongly. How can a woman be silent and preach? How can a woman preach and have authority when the Bible teaches only male authority in church? You are in denial.

sw

You are reponding with your opinion still. Quote the scriptures please and then address them. Where does the Bible teach 'only male authority in church'? Again, this is all your interpretation, opinion. I'm in denial? You don't want to hear the truth.

I gave you specific verses from the Word of God. If you don't believe the Bible is true then we are wasting our time. Further the church denied women pastors for 2000 years. If the Word of God and 2000 years of church history mean nothing to you then perhaps you should reconsider just what authority you are submitting to.

sw

[Guest jckduboise]

seems to me that this thread has run its course a few times over..zero resolution..getting to be old hat and dull..

maybe it should close

[apothanein kerdos]

But perhaps a better question is, how can a woman be authored by God to preach, teach and lead and yet supposedly be told by God to be silent in everything. Doesn

[firehill]

Which makes absolutely no sense in the context.

Which context? The immediate context of worship? 'The church there was fighting many false doctrines from the religion of Artemis because Ephesus was the world center of her worship.'' 'Chapter 2' of 1 Tim is instructions on whorship therefore Paul teaching against Gnosticisim seems to fit just fine in the immediate context.

Why does Paul go from speaking about female attire in church to discussing false theologies?

Paul addressed female attire in worship, and then false theologies pertaining to worship.

'2. Female "Mediators" passed this "special knowledge" on to men during sexual rites featuring intercourse.

3. Mediator women mixing sex with worship were called "Authenia" from the Greek word "Authenteo".'

Why does Paul go from speaking about this to church authority in the next chapter?

Why not transition from teaching on whorship (chp 2) to leadership structure in the church (chp 3)?

[firehill]

Let me make it clear. In Chapter 2 of 1 Timothy Paul is teaching about how God's people should conduct themselves during WORSHIP, NOT structured authority in the church. The transition is obvious from 'chapter 2' to 'chapter 3'.