Women in the Church today

[Guest jckduboise]

Be very careful when you say something that God has ordained is wrong. There is no such "order" to speak of.

And be very careful of what is being taught in that takes away from God's order and what He ordained, these things fall under the line of false teaching and deceptions of satan..I need not repeat the scriptures that support the fact that women are NOT to be the leaders of the church..

I am a woman..and the order is clear..God, man, woman..in that order. Had it been different he would have created Eve first to be the spiritual leader, protector and provider. Period.

[jamie]

This is covered in the links I gave, which no one apparently even read. But a pastor is a minister or servant, which is the very same word used of several women Paul mentioned. Yep, it's what God said.

Exactly, first people need to get a better understanding of what a pastor (really) is. Until then the discussion will be off base.

[Floatingaxe]

There was absolutely a chronological order in God's creation. In Paul's writing of 1 Corinthians 11:3, the word "kephale" meaning head is also the same word used for "origin, source". In other words, Christ is the origin/ source for every man; The man is the origin/source for the woman; God is the origin/source for Christ. There was no argument about Paul's discussion here, because the churches then did have women pastors, and it was acceptable then, as it should be now.

Man and woman are equal partners, created in the image of God. Even God Himself is three equal persons...no hierarchy there. Hierarchy is a man-made idea. Nowhere is the absolute principle of equality contradicted in scripture. Men are equal to women, all races are equal, all ethnicities, all levels of prosperity before God Almighty.

[IslandRose]

There was absolutely a chronological order in God's creation. In Paul's writing of 1 Corinthians 11:3, the word "kephale" meaning head is also the same word used for "origin, source". In other words, Christ is the origin/ source for every man; The man is the origin/source for the woman; God is the origin/source for Christ. There was no argument about Paul's discussion here, because the churches then did have women pastors, and it was acceptable then, as it should be now.

Man and woman are equal partners, created in the image of God. Even God Himself is three equal persons...no hierarchy there. Hierarchy is a man-made idea. Nowhere is the absolute principle of equality contradicted in scripture. Men are equal to women, all races are equal, all ethnicities, all levels of prosperity before God Almighty.

G2776

κεφαλή

kephalē

Thayer Definition:

1) the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment.

2) metaphorically anything supreme, chief, prominent

2a) of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife

2b) of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church

2c) of things: the corner stone

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer

[firehill]

Greetings ~ Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem+

There are alot of churches in the area where I live that now have women Pastors.

Is the reason for this because there are less men choosing to study to become a Pastor?

Snow

Perhaps the reason is because it was prophisied. Psalm 68:11 says,

[IslandRose]

Perhaps the reason is because it was prophisied. Psalm 68:11 says, "The Lord gives the Word. And the women who tell the good news are many." NLV "The Lord announced the word, and great was the company of those who proclaimed it." TNIV. I read somewhere that the "great company" in the TNIV refers to a 'female army'.

Psa 68:11 The Lord136 gave5414 the word:562 great7227 was the company6635 of those that published1319 it.

H6635

צבאה צבא

tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh

tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw'

From H6633; a mass of persons (or figurative things), especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically hardship, worship): - appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).

Where do you find women in there?

[firehill]

A verse that deals more directly with woman pastors is 1 Timothy 2:12, also written by Paul:

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

In other places, women are exhorted to instruct other women and children. The question at issue here is preaching, because the position of preacher is a certain type of authority and responsibilty the Bible says women should not occupy.

(There is actually one point of explanation for this given directly in the Bible. It is Eve, not Adam, who was deceived... because we are more prone to emotionalism, women are often more susceptible to falsehood, and more sensitive to the opinions of others about us.)

http://www.churchofgoddfw.com/women/suffer.shtml

"Fighting False Doctrines

Paul left Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop false teachers; 1Tim 1:3. The church there was fighting many false doctrines from the religion of Artemis because Ephesus was the world center of her worship. The mystery religions and Gnostic beliefs shared many of these same beliefs.

Here are five of these false doctrines widely believed in Ephesus:

1. Eve was created before Adam and received "special knowledge" when she ate the forbidden fruit.

2. Female "Mediators" passed this "special knowledge" on to men during sexual rites featuring intercourse.

3. Mediator women mixing sex with worship were called "Authenia" from the Greek word "Authenteo".

4. Warrior women called Amazons. who were superior to men, founded the city of Ephesus and set up the worship of the fertility goddess Artemis.

5. Artemis, whose name meant SAFE, could keep a woman safe during the dangers of childbirth.

Paul is arming Timothy against every one of these evil doctrines! He warns him in 1Tim 1:20 against two teachers who blaspheme, one a female named Hymenaeus meaning "Wedding Song" and the other a male named Alexander. The doctrine of female Mediators is countered in 1Tim 2:5, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men...". A few verses later Paul moves to stop female teachers such as Hymenaeus by instructing, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to "AUTHENTEIN" a man, but to be in silence."

A Woman is not to Teach What?!

The entire King James phrase "to usurp authority over" is incorrectly translated from one Greek word, "AUTHENTEIN". This word is used only once in the New Testament, and is called by an early instructor, "a coarse word". The "ein" ending tells us that it is the "to" form of a verb made from Authenteo, Strong's 831. A noun form of the same word is "Authenia" which is the term for the women "Mediators" mixing intercourse with religion! Paul is saying he won't allow women to teach or to ____ a man! Insert a coarse sexual word, which is our closest word to the Greek word "Authentein". At the time of Paul it meant to have sex as a part of worship--a joining of a man with a female mediator who represented the goddess being worshipped.

In the very next verse Paul stops the doctrine of Eve being created first, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve." Next he points out that Eve was deceived, not given special knowledge. The final verse proves that Paul is countering evil doctrines!

Safely through Childbirth

1Tim.2:15 should be translated "But she (a woman) will be safe throughout the childbearing if they (her and her husband) continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." Paul uses the word "safe" not the word "saved" as it is usually translated. The Phillips Bible comes closest with, "Women will come safely through childbirth..." Remember the meaning of Artemis' name? It meant SAFE. Paul is making a play on words that God keeps women safe-- not Artemis!

We have studied the context, the backgrounds of Corinth and Ephesus, the evil doctrines, and peeked into the Greek text with modern software. The simple conclusions are that in Corinth Paul was stopping pagan women from posing as prophets and demanding that they keep silent, and in Ephesus he was fighting women "Mediators" teaching evil doctrines. Neither of these two passages of scripture can rightfully be used to limit Christian women serving God however He directs them."

[firehill]

Perhaps the reason is because it was prophisied. Psalm 68:11 says, "The Lord gives the Word. And the women who tell the good news are many." NLV "The Lord announced the word, and great was the company of those who proclaimed it." TNIV. I read somewhere that the "great company" in the TNIV refers to a 'female army'.

Psa 68:11 The Lord136 gave5414 the word:562 great7227 was the company6635 of those that published1319 it.

H6635

צבאה צבא

tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh

tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw'

From H6633; a mass of persons (or figurative things), especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically hardship, worship): - appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).

Where do you find women in there?

http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=57

"Kathryn:

July 13th, 2006 @ 9:10 pm

One more thing: In Psalm 68:11, there is a prophecy that says,

[IslandRose]

A verse that deals more directly with woman pastors is 1 Timothy 2:12, also written by Paul:

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

In other places, women are exhorted to instruct other women and children. The question at issue here is preaching, because the position of preacher is a certain type of authority and responsibilty the Bible says women should not occupy.

(There is actually one point of explanation for this given directly in the Bible. It is Eve, not Adam, who was deceived... because we are more prone to emotionalism, women are often more susceptible to falsehood, and more sensitive to the opinions of others about us.)

http://www.churchofgoddfw.com/women/suffer.shtml

"Fighting False Doctrines

Paul left Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop false teachers; 1Tim 1:3. The church there was fighting many false doctrines from the religion of Artemis because Ephesus was the world center of her worship. The mystery religions and Gnostic beliefs shared many of these same beliefs.

Here are five of these false doctrines widely believed in Ephesus:

1. Eve was created before Adam and received "special knowledge" when she ate the forbidden fruit.

2. Female "Mediators" passed this "special knowledge" on to men during sexual rites featuring intercourse.

3. Mediator women mixing sex with worship were called "Authenia" from the Greek word "Authenteo".

4. Warrior women called Amazons. who were superior to men, founded the city of Ephesus and set up the worship of the fertility goddess Artemis.

5. Artemis, whose name meant SAFE, could keep a woman safe during the dangers of childbirth.

Paul is arming Timothy against every one of these evil doctrines! He warns him in 1Tim 1:20 against two teachers who blaspheme, one a female named Hymenaeus meaning "Wedding Song" and the other a male named Alexander. The doctrine of female Mediators is countered in 1Tim 2:5, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men...". A few verses later Paul moves to stop female teachers such as Hymenaeus by instructing, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to "AUTHENTEIN" a man, but to be in silence."

A Woman is not to Teach What?!

The entire King James phrase "to usurp authority over" is incorrectly translated from one Greek word, "AUTHENTEIN". This word is used only once in the New Testament, and is called by an early instructor, "a coarse word". The "ein" ending tells us that it is the "to" form of a verb made from Authenteo, Strong's 831. A noun form of the same word is "Authenia" which is the term for the women "Mediators" mixing intercourse with religion! Paul is saying he won't allow women to teach or to ____ a man! Insert a coarse sexual word, which is our closest word to the Greek word "Authentein". At the time of Paul it meant to have sex as a part of worship--a joining of a man with a female mediator who represented the goddess being worshipped.

In the very next verse Paul stops the doctrine of Eve being created first, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve." Next he points out that Eve was deceived, not given special knowledge. The final verse proves that Paul is countering evil doctrines!

Safely through Childbirth

1Tim.2:15 should be translated "But she (a woman) will be safe throughout the childbearing if they (her and her husband) continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." Paul uses the word "safe" not the word "saved" as it is usually translated. The Phillips Bible comes closest with, "Women will come safely through childbirth..." Remember the meaning of Artemis' name? It meant SAFE. Paul is making a play on words that God keeps women safe-- not Artemis!

We have studied the context, the backgrounds of Corinth and Ephesus, the evil doctrines, and peeked into the Greek text with modern software. The simple conclusions are that in Corinth Paul was stopping pagan women from posing as prophets and demanding that they keep silent, and in Ephesus he was fighting women "Mediators" teaching evil doctrines. Neither of these two passages of scripture can rightfully be used to limit Christian women serving God however He directs them."

Can you show documentation for these assertations?

[billie]

catherine kuhlman once asked God why He chose her to do what she was doing and not a man. He told her He had called 7 different men to that ministry before her. none of them were willing. God only works thru the willing. sometimes the best person for a job is unwilling to step up and answer their calling but God will get the job done-even if he's got to use a donkey to say what needs to be said