Worthy News: Bush wants the pounding of Hizbollah to be felt in Iran -

[Gerioke]

But the truth is now they want to kill us. Why don't you go offer them a flower and see how beautiful they are.

[Marnie]

It was about oil; not strategic alliances; read some history.

dude' i can't believe you're actually an american. whose side are u on?

It's a free country...you say dumb things if you want to. You know?

[billie]

yeah you're totally right marnie sorry if i offended, anti-hillbilly. you've got every right to your opinion and to express it. that was bad form on my part. hope you'll forgive me???

[anti-hillbilly]

But the truth is now they want to kill us. Why don't you go offer them a flower and see how beautiful they are.

I think we need to focus on Al Quaida and attempt to resume diplomatic relations with Iran; and not train anymore terrorists in the future. -- Keep in mind two years ago this administration suggested to Putin that he negioate with the Muslim terrorists that bombed that school in Chechnya, which Putin was not too happy about.

It's a free country...you say dumb things if you want to. You know?

Some (not all) of your posts fit that bill Marnie so pot-kettle-black.

Edited July 20, 2006 by anti-hillbilly

[anti-hillbilly]

It was about oil; not strategic alliances; read some history.

I don't think they'll use them if they get them..unless they're threatened and backed into a corner. Many countries and peoples of the world consider the United States the biggest sponsorer of terrorism on the planet. We just give it "nice" names when we're sponsoring it; we justify it when we're involved with it.

One thing is for sure; if they get nukes they won't have to worry about our CIA meddling in their affairs again. Possessing nukes has a way of leveling the playing field.

dude' i can't believe you're actually an american. whose side are u on?

Dude, I believe in telling the truth; people don't like the truth though. True patriotism should involve telling the truth, admitting when you're in the wrong and working from there to make it better next time. -- Our so-called "crisis" with Iran didn't happen overnight, it began 50 yrs ago when our govt butted into their business. Lunacy is when you think you can do that and not have it bomerang back on you. "Might does not make right" as American colonists proved to the world's superpower Great Britain 225 yrs ago.

Iran won't be bombed back to the stone age; too much oil.

BTW - You guys can all verify what I'm telling you for yourselves. It's not like it's some big secret. It's documented historical fact. Surely you don't fall for that line that the terrorists hate us for our freedom do you?

Maybe you don't get this Anti-Hillbilly, but nobody cares about these facts. Even if America made mistakes leading to the problems we face today, I am not wanting nations like Iran to have nuclear weapons to protect them from America. How utterly absurd. This sounds like the type of rubbish they promote on Air America. We need to make sure that Iran never has nuclear weapons, and I don't care about our past relations with the Shaw. At least he was on friendly terms with this country, which is why we backed him, but even if that was not the case, as an American I am not neutral on such things. I don't look at the world and take sides with other countries over America because I think we did them wrong. I will always side with this nation. I might support changes in policies at times if I think we are going down the wrong road, but will never take sides with other countries. I am thankful your thinking is not predominant in the military. I want soldiers who actually take this countries side during times of war. In addition, I think this type of misguided thinking should show everyone why we don't want liberals running this country.

I don't think you side with this country; you said yourself you want to see it become a theocracy. I thought that was one of the things we disliked about Muslim countries. The Shah was a brutal dictator and he treated his own people awful while catering to American oil interests.

You amaze me with your arrogance sometimes.

[ted]

It was about oil; not strategic alliances; read some history.

Actually, it was about both. But now, there's a new situation- trying to prevent a nuclear showdown with people that have no idea how to play the nuclear game.

I don't think they'll use them if they get them..unless they're threatened and backed into a corner.

Ah, but there's the pinch: If there's one thing that Muslim terrorists are good at, it's the ability to shape world opinion and bend it to their will. Will it be hard for them to convince the world stage that they are, indeed, "threatened"?

Put that together with the current Iranian President's stated goal of wiping out Israel once and for all, and surely your eyebrows have to raise up just a bit.

One thing is for sure; if they get nukes they won't have to worry about our CIA meddling in their affairs again.

Are you serious? How exactly did Russia's possesion of nuclear weapons prevent us from "meddling" in their affairs during the cold war? Iran getting nukes is not going to prevent the CIA from doing their job. The only hinderance thay have today is massive budget cuts and a world sense that they are only "meddling" in other's affairs. It is that "meddling" that kept us abreast of what was going on in Russia during the cold war, and I dare say, the only reason why you didn't have cold potatoes and vodka for breakfast this morning set to the tone of a Russian political broadcast on the radio. I'm not sure how old you are, but perhaps you didn't live through any of the cold war and therefore cannot get the feeling of it from whatever they are teaching as history in school these days?

Possessing nukes has a way of leveling the playing field.

Are you actually saying that the doctrine of Mutally Assured Destruction was, and is, a good thing?

Let me make sure I'm reading you correctly:

You think that Iran having nukes would be better than them not having nukes?

In a way, you are somewhat correct in the sense that the only reason Russia never lauched nukes against us is because they understood that they would be hit harder if they did. In that sense, the MAD doctrine was good for the times at hand. It worked then because the Russians understood the game. The game, however, will not be played by the same rules by Iran, which therefore, reduces the MAD doctrine to worthlesness.

What you are not understanding is that Muslim terrorists play by a different handbook. The MAD doctrine will not work with them because they do not posses the same value on human life as the Russians did, in a weird sense, that is. Although they certainly killed millions, the Russians understood that they would be wiped out as a whole during a nuclear war with the US and that kept them in check. They wanted no part of total destruction because their goal was to be the world power and prosper. The Muslim terrorists, on the other hand, would think it an honor to be wiped out in the name of allah, and that's the biggest difference between the two. Yes, they want to dominate, but they have whipped their followers into such a frenzy, that most will not care whether they survive and would count it a blessing if they didn't.

Yes, Russia wanted to continue to grab up land and nations, but they understood that there would be a line which they could not cross. Although that line was stretched a bit by both sides for almost 50 years, neither us or them really wanted to cross it for fear of a nuclear holocost.

For the terrorist leaders, the rules are much different. They do not see the ownership of nuclear weapons as a defensive measure, they see them only in one context- the offense, and that's exactly how they will be used by them. They put on a good show on TV and claim that their nuclear goals are peaceful, but they lie. They want nukes to force Israel, the US, and eventually, everyone else, to bend to their will. There will be no US-Soviet style arms race like we lived through during the cold war. What will happen is that they will launch as soon as they feel ready to do so, and without warning.

Would that be enough for some people to feel like we got what we deserve? Somehow, I doubt it.

Anyway, your points about the US not having clean hands on the world stage is well taken. We have, indeed, created some of the problems that we must face now.

The way to fix this is not to ride some guilt complex and invite half of the world to kick our butts so we can feel better about ourselves, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should somehow make amends by letting some of these countries gain the nuclear ability to wipe us out.

Listening to some people, including you, it seems the only real way to pay for our mistakes is to sit back and watch others take out their aggression on us so that, somehow, we can feel like we got what we deserved. Sorry, but my sense of guilt only stretches so far.

I will not sit back and allow this country to be over run by people that feel our only way to atonement for past mistakes is to ensure that we are reduced to worrying about what a nuclear-tipped Iran might do to us in a fit of Jihad. Nor will I, as long as my body and mind can handle the load, sit back and watch some little dictator-wannabe grow enough in strength so that one day, he will have the clear ability to wipe us out with one touch of a button. I won't let it happen.

I have pledged to protect this country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

My primary means of offense is the power of prayer. I don't really want to go over there anymore, so I pray that the Lord will have mercy on us all and fix the situation at hand quickly, with no more cost of human life. How I wish that I could walk down the streets of Tehran and simply smile and wave to everyone I meet in times where our differences would cause nothing more than a smile and an agreement to disagree. Sadly, we are not there yet, and they have pledged to hurt us as well as to wipe Israel out of existance. But will it stop after the US and Israel are wiped out?

Hardly.

There is one more point which is being ignored so far by the world and when you think about it, it's actually more real than the possibility of the US or Israel getting smoked. The point I'm making is this: Civil war between rival Muslim factions would be hugely affected by one side getting their hands on nukes.. If one side gets nukes, is there any doubt that it would be used to their advantage? The danger, of course, is the residual effects of a Sunni launch against the Shiites, or vice-versa. How many other people without a dog in the civil war hunt would be affected if the Shiities launched a nuke against the Sunnis in downtown Baghdad?

It's clear that rival factions within the Arabian/ Muslim world show little restraint against each other, nevermind what they do to us, so how would the idea of one of them gaining a nuke fit into that scenario?

As well, perhaps a nuclear-tipped Iran would decide one day that say, oh I don't know, let's say Saudi Arabia, has not really fought the infidels with enough zeal and needs to be punished for their sins.....

The possibilities are endless, but real none the less.

No matter how you feel in regards to how we clean up our messes, allowing Syria, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, or any other unstable nation to gain nuclear weapons to feel better about ourselves is not the answer. My guilt complex only stretches so far, and the idea of them having the ability to nuke me just doesn't solve the problem.

We're just going to have to figure out another way to punish ourselves.

t.

[anti-hillbilly]

Ted, Pakistan and India have nukes; it's only a matter of time before Iran gets them too.

As far as that Iranian leader threatening to wipe out Israel his words were taken out of context. He's not gonna do that, the Mullahs won't allow it and let's face it, it would be suicide for his country. His threatening nature is tantamout to our cowboy wanna-be moron President talking big talk (which he has had to tone down).

They're an independent country; it's not our place to tell then what they can and cannot do. And after what our govt has done to the people of that country (via the Shah) I wouldn't take orders from the U.S. govt. either if I were Iranian.

I agree Islamic terrorists are dangerous but keep in mind the fundamentalists Chrisitans in this country are chomping at the bit for WWIII because they think Jesus is gonna come back and kill everybody (including the Jews and Muslims) who don't convert to evangelical Christianity. If they get their wish what are they gonna say (if they survive) when nuclear winter hits and Jesus hasn't raptured them up and the world's survivors are either starving or slowly dying from radiation poisioning.

There's plenty of nuts to go around and we'd better get a grip and start negotiating......and mean it. Chevon and Exxon surely didn't expect to rule that part of the world forever. They made enough $$ to fill Fort Knox; best to take the money and run now cause it's only a matter of time before Iran and everyone else for that matter bands together and lowers the boom on the U.S. I don't want to see that happen, do you? Our govt better start "making nice". Rome fell and so can we.

[billie]

Ted, Pakistan and India have nukes; it's only a matter of time before Iran gets them too.

As far as that Iranian leader threatening to wipe out Israel his words were taken out of context. He's not gonna do that, the Mullahs won't allow it and let's face it, it would be suicide for his country. His threatening nature is tantamout to our cowboy wanna-be moron President talking big talk (which he has had to tone down).

They're an independent country; it's not our place to tell then what they can and cannot do. And after what our govt has done to the people of that country (via the Shah) I wouldn't take orders from the U.S. govt. either if I were Iranian.

I agree Islamic terrorists are dangerous but keep in mind the fundamentalists Chrisitans in this country are chomping at the bit for WWIII because they think Jesus is gonna come back and kill everybody (including the Jews and Muslims) who don't convert to evangelical Christianity. If they get their wish what are they gonna say (if they survive) when nuclear winter hits and Jesus hasn't raptured them up and the world's survivors are either starving or slowly dying from radiation poisioning.

There's plenty of nuts to go around and we'd better get a grip and start negotiating......and mean it. Chevon and Exxon surely didn't expect to rule that part of the world forever. They made enough $$ to fill Fort Knox; best to take the money and run now cause it's only a matter of time before Iran and everyone else for that matter bands together and lowers the boom on the U.S. I don't want to see that happen, do you? Our govt better start "making nice". Rome fell and so can we.

Once again, we see how naive the left is. Just because the leader of Iran says he wants to destroy Israel doesn't mean that he really meant it, and even if he did, he will never attempt it because the Mullah's won't allow it? In other words, you are saying to roll the dice and take that chance. Then you make the argument Iran will eventually have nukes regardless of what we do. That is not true. If we go in now we can ensure whatever progress they have made is destroyed and they will be forced to begin again at square one. When they attempt to make nukes again, we wipe them out. It doesn't matter if they are an independent nation. As an independent nation, the United States has a right to look after it's own interests which includes going to war with the independent nation of Iran if we deem it necessary.

Now here is something I found interesting that you said. You claimed that Christians want a World War 3 because that would supposedly usher in the return of Jesus. I don't know what Christians you were listening to, but I assure you that while I believe in the return of Christ and an eventual Armageddon, I am not desiring to see World War 3 begin. If I wanted that, I would go along with the liberals and support letting the whole world have nukes so we could get on with the showdown. Nobody that I know of desires a war. My desire is to see Armaggedon and judgement held off, not sped up which is why I want to see people repent of their sins and this nation turn back to God. If the church will do that, God may have mercy on us as he did those who sought him in Old Testament times.

By the way, concerning Iran lowering the boom on us, here is how I feel about that. If they do, I would consider it an act of war and support a real war for oil, something liberals have already accused America of fighting for in the first place. Since this nation needs oil to survive, that is reason enough to go in and invade Iran and take the oil by force if need be. That wouldn't be necessary however, if wacko environmentalists would stop fighting efforts to drill off shore and in Alaska.

I don't mean to get off topic, but, yeah, about those environmentalists....I'm all for no unnessesary destruction of God's creation too, but what kind of sense does it make when you can kill a human baby, but not a baby seal?

[ted]

I don't mean to get off topic, but, yeah, about those environmentalists....I'm all for no unnessesary destruction of God's creation too, but what kind of sense does it make when you can kill a human baby, but not a baby seal?

Not one bit of sense.....but I don't think that drilling for oil would be an "unnessasary destruction" of God's creation. We've drilled before and have a fairly decent record to show for it.

Mistakes have, and will happen again in the drilling industry, but we have a pretty good grasp on how to do it now.

Anyway...

Ted, Pakistan and India have nukes; it's only a matter of time before Iran gets them too.

It's only a matter of time before the anyone gets them, for that matter, but I'd like to see Iran with a little more stability in their Gov't before they do.

Here's why:

As far as that Iranian leader threatening to wipe out Israel his words were taken out of context. He's not gonna do that, the Mullahs won't allow it and let's face it, it would be suicide for his country. His threatening nature is tantamout to our cowboy wanna-be moron President talking big talk (which he has had to tone down).

Out of context??

No, his remarks are taken within the exact context of what he means! Hopefully, the Mullahs will be able to put him in check, but I think he has whipped his country into such a frenzy that it would be suicide for him not to do what he says he will, at this point.

Is he inflating his words for effect? Well, possibly. Many do it.

As you point out, Bush says stupid things at times, too. His "Bring it on" remark, although funny, was pretty dumb, considering the job at hand.

This Iranian president says these things time after time after time, though. At this point, I'm gonna have to take him at his word and trust that he means what he says. We are simply going to have to trust what he says for no and act accordingly. To do otherwise would lower our guard too much in this situation.

Remember: Suicide to them holds a whole other meaning than it does to us. They simply hold the value of human life in a different light than we do. It's not that they place no value on it, they just have different views on what constitutes justifiable suicide. Given that fact, we have to prepare for them in different ways than we did for other countries such as Russia.

They're an independent country; it's not our place to tell then what they can and cannot do.

It becomes our place when we are placed, by them, in a situation where we know we will have to deal with them. They will not stop at their stated goal of wiping Israel off of the map of existance. For them, it will be a great equalizer for them to get a nuke. To us, it will raise the stakes significantly. We would then be forced to deal with them on a much higher scale. For now, we have means to interrupt their schedule and plans. If we wait, it becomes a whole new ballgame. That's a hell of a price to pay for not wanting to step on some international toes.

I'm praying for a diplomatic solution. I have no desire to leave home and wallow around the deserts of Iran for the next ten years. Trust me, I'd rather sit around and watch my son grow, eat watermelon on the front porch, and watch my Red Sox on TV. Hopefully, it can all be resolved soon. I just don't think the best solution for all of this is for them to get a working nuclear weapons program.

I agree Islamic terrorists are dangerous but keep in mind the fundamentalists Chrisitans in this country are chomping at the bit for WWIII because they think Jesus is gonna come back and kill everybody (including the Jews and Muslims) who don't convert to evangelical Christianity. If they get their wish what are they gonna say (if they survive) when nuclear winter hits and Jesus hasn't raptured them up and the world's survivors are either starving or slowly dying from radiation poisioning.

LOL!

Well, I think that's a pretty broad stroke of the brush, but I do think that there are a few out there that hold similar, if not toned down, views.

Personally, I'm not hoping for WWIII at all. War kinda sucks, really. It's always in some far out place that's either too hot or too cold. You always get sand and stuff in your underwear, there's always some stupid spider or insect that will kill you in 30 seconds if it bites you, and there's hardly any Wal-Marts in these places, either.

I'd much rather prefer a peaceful solution.

But, the sad fact is, sometimes there's no way out of it or around it. We have to recognize what is going on and be strong enough to deal with it when it hits.

There's plenty of nuts to go around and we'd better get a grip and start negotiating......and mean it. Chevon and Exxon surely didn't expect to rule that part of the world forever. They made enough $$ to fill Fort Knox; best to take the money and run now cause it's only a matter of time before Iran and everyone else for that matter bands together and lowers the boom on the U.S. I don't want to see that happen, do you? Our govt better start "making nice". Rome fell and so can we.

I agree that we need to start negotiating, but the fact is, we know what we are negotiating with in the first place. I always leave room for God's direct intervention, but there are times when negotiating just ain't cutting it any longer.

Let's take a peak at how negotiations went with North Korea.....

We gave them everything they wanted in the 90's. Heck, we even gave them the technology to build light water reactors. We gave them aid for food, and even puuled off of the DMZ and moved a bit south off of the border in good hope.

All they had to do was not build a nuclear weapon.

When it was all said and done, they were about to get caught with their pants down and finally, they came out and said what we suspected all along: They were, in fact, actively trying to build a nuke!

WOO HOO! Great job on the negotiations, wouldn't you say? They lied, and now we have to pay for it. Now, they want us to look the other way again and give them a chance. LOL!

Of cousre, we will get the short end of the stick on the world stage and be blamed for all of it, but the truth is, they will not be held accountable for there direct lies. Somehow, it will all be Bush's fault.

Now, we can see the same things from Iran. A few years ago, we had thought that it was all worked out: We would take Iran at it's word that they would not build a nuclear bomb. We even sent in the same idiots that set up the N. Korea deals and actually offered to set them up with light water reactors so that they could achieve their "goal" of providing themselves with nuclear energy without the capability to build the bomb with the waste.

Low and behold, they get caught as well!

Why, one would (or should) ask, would they not want help in achieving their goals for energy> I mean, we were set to help them, and offered help for them, to make light nuke energy plants- why would they turn that down?

Well, because their goal, much like the N. Koreans' goal, was not to make plants for energy purposes in the first place- it was to develop the means to make nuclear weapons, pure and simple. How that fact escapes people is a mystery to me! It's so incredibly simple to see, but yet we don't want to face the facts.

The "boom", has in fact, been lowered on us once before, and is happening again now, albeit in a much slower pace so that it's harder to recognize. The boom, of cousre, was the oil embargo which OPEC placed on us in the early '70's. That was a small sign of things to come, and one which woke up this nation- to a point.

I think some smart-types in this country saw the embargo for what it was at the time it was happening. It was a sign that we are at the mercy of an unstable region of the world and I think some leaders resolved to never place our country at that particular mercy again. So, we now have an active roll in the goings-on in that region.

Could it be worked out in other ways? Well, hopefully, but a by-product of all of this is the heightened version of terrorism. It's something which did not directly affect us, for the most part just a few short years ago, but is now something which we have to deal with with each breath we take.

Will switching to an alternative fuel save us? Well, maybe, but I think that it will only create "Wind Barons" and "Blood for Grain" and "Big Corn" in the long run. Oil will only be discarded for the next fuel source, and then the whole thing starts over again, true?

No, I don't want the boom to hit us on the head anymore than you do, but it begs the question: When we see it directly over our heads, do we watch it fall, or do something to stop it?

Me, I'm picking option #2!

Then again, there could be a third option: Simply move out of it's way and let it fall harmlessly to the ground.

The trick, of course, is just how to do this in the first place. Mankind has been to absorbed with options 1 & 2 that we haven't really thought of #3 with any degree of intelligence.

Perhaps God will think of it for us?

Peace,

t.

[anti-hillbilly]

Basically you guys are just reaffirming what the rest of the world already thinks about us. Despite all our "talk" about spreading democracy it's just talk. In the reality we'll do what we want to whomever we want and take what we want from whomever we want.....just because we need it.....and we have the power to do it. Nevermind that this situation is of our govt.'s own making.

Got it!

[link]

Edited July 22, 2006 by anti-hillbilly