What are we supposed to "do" with Old Testament Law?

[Floatingaxe]

I am going to do something that is a little unusual for me on here, and that is to be lighthearted. I can be, really! When I consider the OT laws, I am just so thankful God created me in this century. They had so many restrictions about women and such and women were more like property back then, so I just thank my "lucky stars" that God chose to have me born in the second half of the 1900's (well, the very last day and last 6 hours of 1949, so almost). So, that is what I think about when I consider the OT laws. Well, I guess that was not all that lighthearted, huh? But, close!

As far as I know, God summed up all the laws in two - love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself, so if you follow those, then you'll be fine! He'll fill in the rest for you.

Amen! You are 3 yrs older than I!

[Guest onethang]

Christ Himself said that whatever enters the digestive tract does not defile a person. This would include food or non-food, or however we may want to twist wording to justify a works based self-righteousness. But on your example, eating plastic cups or non-food, may not be the smartest thing to do in the world, but it is not a sin. The same would go for shrimp or pork or anything else you may want to designate as

[Guest onethang]

Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel. The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than Israel.

So are Jews some unique kind of people. Is God so unfair to them that he had/has one set of rules for them, and another set of rules for the rest of humanity?

God gave the apostle Peter a vision in which He declares concerning formerly unclean animals,

[Smalcald]

The surface issue in Matt. 15 and Mark 7 is eating with unwashed hands. The real issue is hypocrisy. The Pharisees made up their own rules and broke God's commandments. There is no biblical command to wash your hands before eating, Jesus' conclusion in Matt. 15:20 "to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man." It makes no sense for Jesus to say, "You guys can't make up your own rules, and you shouldn't break God's commandments. But guess what, you can throw out everything God said about which animals you can eat." He would have been cutting off the branch he was sitting on. Besides, the conversation was between Jesus and Pharisees, neither of them would have thought about eating a pig

Also, if Jesus really was getting rid of the food laws there, where was Peter? Why would God have to later give him that vision to get him to eat unclean animals? But the vision was a metaphor, go to the gentiles.

Right. But you know it was hypocrisy, the idea that what we put into our mouth could defile us, it can't, and Christ says so very directly in this passage. It then becomes hypocrisy to think that we are somehow clean because we eat a filthy chicken, rather than a filthy hog, please. We should always go with the direct meaning of scripture. Christ tells us what defiles us is what proceeds from our heart, as Christ says, things like adultery, envy, fornication (that would of course include bestiality or any sex outside of that with your wife or husband), etc. If eating things, pork, stones, non-food, or unclean things, could defile us, Christ certainly would have said so here, when He directly tells us what defiles us. I will go with the words of Christ first.

The options you give are not the only options at all, not even close. We have how we are to live directly in the New Testament. Over and over again it is emphasized that we do not have to follow Jewish Dietary law, or ritual law, they were a foreshadow, but indeed they are an empty ritual. Of course Peter didn't get that, but Christ came to set things straight. Our heart is what condemns us, over and over again Christ says things such as lust are the sin, looking at a women with lust, this is adultery. He always looks to the intent, and He always looks to the moral law, not the empty rituals of that time that the Jews thought would save them. Christ is the point of the entire Holy Bible, everything leads to Him or proceeds from Him, and outside of Christ the bible is meaningless.

If people don't want to eat pork or shrimp for health reasons, and I think there indeed is guidance from Christ for us to treat our bodies right, that is fine, but it has nothing to do with the need to follow OT law. Why does Paul make such a point about NOT getting circumcised? Circumcision was certainly a central part of the OT command to the Jews. So if this is not followed, certainly the other rituals not relating to the moral law of Christ are also not important. Paul goes on to say not to worry about new moons or Sabbaths; once again we have direct guidance.

I don't have a problem with anyone following OT ritual or ceremonial law, maybe it makes people feels a connection to the past, I think particularly for ethnic Jews this may be very important. But it has nothing to do with salvation or faith in Christ and it earns or profits you nothing as Paul very pointedly states. If you do it thinking you are special or deserving of merit, in that case it is a very dangerous practice. It is no different from thinking you have to go to Mass on High Holy Days and if you don't and don't repent you will go to hell, it is a works based idea, an empty ritual.

[Christ's Free Servant]

I am going to do something that is a little unusual for me on here, and that is to be lighthearted. I can be, really! When I consider the OT laws, I am just so thankful God created me in this century. They had so many restrictions about women and such and women were more like property back then, so I just thank my "lucky stars" that God chose to have me born in the second half of the 1900's (well, the very last day and last 6 hours of 1949, so almost). So, that is what I think about when I consider the OT laws. Well, I guess that was not all that lighthearted, huh? But, close!

As far as I know, God summed up all the laws in two - love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself, so if you follow those, then you'll be fine! He'll fill in the rest for you.

Amen! You are 3 yrs older than I!

Were you born on New Year's Eve, too?

[Floatingaxe]

I disagree with this:

The vision with Peter had nothing to do with food. It had to do with preaching the gospel to the gentiles.

The vision had to do with both the time of the Gentile, and the doing away with the dietary requirements. Mark 7:18-23 says:

"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

If Jesus declared all foods clean, then I am free of that Pharisaic thinking.

[wordsower]

Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel. The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than Israel. Jesus later declares all foods clean (Mark 7:19). God gave the apostle Peter a vision in which He declares concerning formerly unclean animals,

[Guest onethang]

If Jesus declared all foods clean, then I am free of that Pharisaic thinking.

Right. Cow and sheep are food/ can be eaten, according to lev 11. Pig is not to be eaten. Cow is clean, it is not made unclean by you eating it without washing your hands. The Pharisaic thinking was that eating with unwashed hands would make you unclean.

BTW. Lev. 11 never says that eating pig will make you unclean, it just says not to do it. (though touching a dead carcas does). Eating shrimp doesn't defile you, it's sin. (definition of sin: transgression of the Law.)

Jesus' disagreement with the Pharisees = eating clean animals with unwashed hands is not immoral.

[billie]

All you Hebrew scholars--answer this question, please--- I heard that one of the Hebrew words for swine actually means garbage?

[Smalcald]

But Christ in that discussion of washing the hands took the opportunity to make a major point about what defiles a person. His point is sound, Christ stated that NOTHING that enters your digestive tract can defile you, what proceeds from the heart is what defiles us. He could have said, not washing your hands or not following this particular ritual, but He didn't He broadened the point, getting to the heart of the matter, the heart of the difference between the moral law of Christ and true faith, and the empty worries and rituals concerning food, Sabbaths, circumcision, and animal sacrifice, and all of the other ceremonial and ritual laws of the Jews of the Old Testament. This is a very old debate about reintroducing a works based empty ritual system, taking away from the sacrifice of Christ. Paul addressed this whole debate in Galatians, I encourage everyone to read Galatians again, and Paul is very strong about the need to reject this sort of works based thinking.

Christ shows us a better way.