Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[artsylady]

Paulo: I take it you do not want to reflect on my post regarding strong compulsions that humans have that lead them to sin?

You've stated before that homosexuals would not 'choose' such a lifestyle because of the backlash? Why would people 'choose' to cut themselves, or to amputate themselves, to become bisexual, or to become heroine addicts? The devil is merely playing with their head, from a young age, so much so that they believe they were 'born' with addictive personalities, or born with a sexual orientation, or born with whatever it is that torments their thoughts. Have you considered that homosexuality might fall into this catagory?

[artsylady]

Hamburgers. Slavery didn't meant the same thing back then that it does now. We picture people in chains with very little to eat working 7 days a week, having their children sold away from them at birth. We picture this because this is our most recent reflection from history of slavery.

But the Bible talks about slaves being set free after a period of just 7 years. It also speaks of slaves who, after having been set free, come back to continue to be a slave. Would such a thing have EVER happened in the USA's south where people were mistreated? It's clear that Jesus taught us to respect others etc, etc, and that he came for ALL of mankind etc, etc, so mistreatment of other humans is always just plain wrong. I just wonder if slavery back then was more like a work for food and lodging arrangement. Slavery wasn't based on race back then.(except in the case of the Egyptians.) People sold themselves when they couldn't pay their debts. Kind of like going bankrupt. It's not like God allowed people to capture people and sell them like what we saw in the South in the USA or even today in other parts of the world.

Deuteronomy 15:12

12 If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, SELLS HIMSELF TO YOU and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free. 13 And when you release him, do not send him away empty-handed. 14 Supply him liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you.

Ephesians 6:

5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. 9And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Colossians 4:

1Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

2Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful. 3And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. 4Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. 5Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

If a man owed me 80,000 dollars and couldn't pay me, and there were no courts to govern bankruptcies etc, would you think I was a terrible person if I said to the man "okay, forget the 80 grand, come and live in my guesthouse. I'll give you food and lodging for 2 years and you can help me with the crops and animals (assuming I was a farmer), and when the two years is up, you can take 20 cattle along for yourself", would you think I was a horrible person?

The above is not like what we North Americans picture as slavery. Bringing another people away from their country in chains and working them against their will was ALWAYS wrong according to scriptures and of course, true Christians ALWAYS did recognize it as being wrong. That's why slavery in the USA ended.

[Guest LadyC]

Apologies if this has already been brought up, but there are at least 450 species in the animal kingdom that have documented homosexual behaviour. Those of you in NYC may have seen Ray and Silo, Central Park's gay penguins. The two are inseparable - they even managed to incubate an egg and raise the child.

homosexual behaviour among animals (and yes this has ben covered) is about dominance, not sexual preference. as for your gay penguins, they aren't inseparable. this was discussed in its own thread a few months ago. one of the penguins, i think it was silo, has since dumped the other in favor of a lady-penguin.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Hamburgers. Slavery didn't meant the same thing back then that it does now. We picture people in chains with very little to eat working 7 days a week, having their children sold away from them at birth. We picture this because this is our most recent reflection from history of slavery.

But the Bible talks about slaves being set free after a period of just 7 years. It also speaks of slaves who, after having been set free, come back to continue to be a slave. Would such a thing have EVER happened in the USA's south where people were mistreated? It's clear that Jesus taught us to respect others etc, etc, and that he came for ALL of mankind etc, etc, so mistreatment of other humans is always just plain wrong. I just wonder if slavery back then was more like a work for food and lodging arrangement. Slavery wasn't based on race back then.(except in the case of the Egyptians.) People sold themselves when they couldn't pay their debts. Kind of like going bankrupt. It's not like God allowed people to capture people and sell them like what we saw in the South in the USA or even today in other parts of the world.

Artsylady, this is sorta my point though. At this time in history, our view of "slavery" in the bible is this sort of indentured servant notion. But back when we had slaves, people used the same passages that you laid out (and others) and vehemently defended their use of slaves with the bible, claiming that they were treating the slaves right, and that they were not doing anything sinful. They claimed that they were treating the slaves with similar kindness, in giving them a place to live and eat.

But somewhere along the line the government thought slavery to be wrong, and it was abolished. So now, we don't interpret the bible the same way we used to. That is my point, that we interpret things to fit in with our line of thinking.

The bible is a big book; it has a lot of passages in it pertaining to many different things. Yet I have seen probably 3-5 passages that discuss homosexuality, and even those passages are a big vague for the most part. My "complaint" if you could call it that, is that Christians today are ready to pounce on homosexuality by looking at these few passages that vaguely reference it, and immediatly condemn it, whereas when an issue that looks to be more concrete, such as slavery or not allowing women in positions of power in the church, get debated, argued over, interpreted, etc etc etc ad nausium. I mean, how come we can glaze over the seemingly crystal clear arguements about certain issues in the bible, while other issues we all put our foot down without giving it a second glance? What's more, it is almost undoubtable that the bible has been used in the past to interpret things differently than things are interpreted today. Is the bible changing, or are the cultures changing?

My point is if we are going to take one issue in the bible at face value, we will need to take all issues in the bible at face value. If we are willing to interpret and analyze one issue in the bible, we will need to analyze and interpret all issues in the bible. Homosexuality is no exception.

[feider]

Being gay is a choice, like anything else. We all make choices, whether good or bad.

And you can choose to follow God, or not.

Scripture clearly states that homosexuality is wrong, and to try to defend it, or justify it, is beyond me.

If one believes any differently, then maybe they need to reread some scripture. But, every bible I have read, states that it is wrong. Unfortunantly, in the world we live in today, there will always be someone playing devils advocate.

[Floatingaxe]

Christians today are ready to pounce on homosexuality by looking at these few passages that vaguely reference it, and immediatly condemn it,

I thought I would respond to this sentence. I believe that Christians today do not necessarily pounce on homosexuality as an issue per se. It is a strongly contentious issue only because of the prominence which it is given by those who are marketing it as a viable lifestyle. It would be just as much a contentious issue if those who commit other sins would promote them as normal and even good.

[Scarletprayers]

Christians today are ready to pounce on homosexuality by looking at these few passages that vaguely reference it, and immediatly condemn it,

I thought I would respond to this sentence. I believe that Christians today do not necessarily pounce on homosexuality as an issue per se. It is a strongly contentious issue only because of the prominence which it is given by those who are marketing it as a viable lifestyle. It would be just as much a contentious issue if those who commit other sins would promote them as normal and even good.

As well as agreeing with what FA says, I would like to ask, how many times does something need to be brought up in scripture before you no longer find it vaugely referended?

[Kabowd]

Sounds like someone has been reading Sam Harris....

[Floatingaxe]

Sounds like someone has been reading Sam Harris....

Who is Sam Harris when he's home?

[Kabowd]

Sounds like someone has been reading Sam Harris....

Who is Sam Harris when he's home?

Huh? Sam Harris is an atheist with a chip on his shoulder. He wrote a book called "Letter to a Christian Nation" which is just a tiny little book filled with TONS of strawment arguments in order to attack Christianity. It's pathetic really. His arguments are really weak, but he repeatedly mentions things like slavery, abortion. homosexuality...stuff like that. To an undiscerning person, they might seem like good arguments. It seems like alot of people try to use the same ones, so I was thinking they may have read his book.