Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[artsylady]

"Second of all, I agree with you that homosexuals should try to come back in the fold, but if they truly suffer and are unable to do so, would we still say that person is condemned? All I am asking for here is a little sympathy instead of saying they are an abomination and should be damned for being disordered. "

My problem isn't so much with the homosexuals or what they do it is those who are saying that it is not a sin, especially Christians who would tell homosexuals that it's not a sin. This is a problem. If God said it was wrong, it's wrong. To tell a person otherwise is causing them harm and we'll be judged on that. As Christians, we may be judged more harshly for condoning this kind of sin, than a struggling homosexual would be judged.

[artsylady]

Actually Hamburgers, the Bible says it's better NOT to marry, but better to marry than burn with passion. And when Jesus talked about marriage, he did say One MAN one WOMAN.

[artsylady]

Animals are not spiritual beings. They don't pray, they don't worship anything etc. They simply run on instinct. They're hungry they eat, they tired, they sleep, they're hungry some of them kill. They can kill each other and none of them will go to trial. (Kangaroo court is just a figure of speech. It's not real) If a monkey steals from another, they just fight it out. The others don't rally around to discuss the issue or try to make things right. God doesn't judge animals and never set any laws in place for them. Animals don't have morals. I'm sure we can all think of stories that come to mind in regards to their lack of morals so I won't give you any examples.

The only laws concerning animals were for Humans - that is, we are to take care of them.

[artsylady]

Paulo:

"Before I moved to the big city, I was pretty naive when it came to homosexuality. But having met many gays and lesbians, I have to stand by my assertion that it isn't a choice. "

So you've made up your mind.....

Never mind the scientific studies that don't prove what you seem to believe. Throw science away. You've made your decision based on some gay people you've met.

Is that why you choose to interpret scripture the way you do? Be honest.

You've met people, talked to them, and they made you believe they couldn't help themselves. So, you decided to take the scriptures you found and make it seem as though homosexuality was not a sin.

Out of curiousity, have you ever talked to a cleptomaniac?

[Floatingaxe]

BEING DISORDERED as a HOMOSEXUAL should not be considered damnable.

Tell that to your maker! He calls it a damnable sin.

Read the Word of God:

1 Corinthians 6:9

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

That should settle it.

Just wondering if you're being selective in your responses FA? I posted a reply to that verse earlier in this thread:

I don't mean to be a pain, but I've discussed this with people before too. While it seems like a very cut and dry verse, in 1 Corinthians 6, "male prostitutes" is a translation of the Greek word malakoi (singular: malakos), and "homosexual offenders" is a translation of arsenokoiati (singular: arsenokoites), which occurs in one other place in the Bible, 1 Timothy 1:10, where it is translated as "perverts".

If 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 could be translated as "... homosexuals ... will not inherit the Kingdom of God", or anything like that, then this debate would be over. But arsenokoites and malakos can't be translated in that way. We have to conclude that 1 Corinthians 6:1-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11 have nothing to say about same-sex relationships.

I am not selective at all. I take God's Word at face value. It was written for everyone, so you don't have to be a scholar to read it and receive enlightenment from it. People who read into it as you do, are walking a spiritual tightrope, and the other end is unravelling.

Seems to me you are the selective one!

[CaritateDei]

"Second of all, I agree with you that homosexuals should try to come back in the fold, but if they truly suffer and are unable to do so, would we still say that person is condemned? All I am asking for here is a little sympathy instead of saying they are an abomination and should be damned for being disordered. "

My problem isn't so much with the homosexuals or what they do it is those who are saying that it is not a sin, especially Christians who would tell homosexuals that it's not a sin. This is a problem. If God said it was wrong, it's wrong. To tell a person otherwise is causing them harm and we'll be judged on that. As Christians, we may be judged more harshly for condoning this kind of sin, than a struggling homosexual would be judged.

Let me re-iterate YET AGAIN.

Homosexual acts are sinful.

Being a homosexual is not sinful.

I do not understand how you can sit there and say by someone's BEING that they are evil.

[Floatingaxe]

If they ARE that, then they have some getting right to do--whether or not they practice it! Once healed of it, they are free and no longer need be called homosexual!

[CaritateDei]

If they ARE that, then they have some getting right to do--whether or not they practice it! Once healed of it, they are free and no longer need be called homosexual!

Ok...I'm an alcoholic.

However, I do not drink in excess.

Science has found that people are BORN alcoholic. The fact is, my ACTIONS do not TRIGGER my alcoholism, so I am not being harmful to myself. I have never been drunk, but my entire genealogy will tell you one thing: I'm an alcoholic. I was born one.

If a homosexual who clearly feels attracted to folks of the same sex DOES NOT TRIGGER these feelings with action, then why call that person evil and damned? You say that homosexuality is chosen, and therefore the burden of proof lies to you. You CAN'T prove that. You can't prove a negative either...Science can't prove they are born with it. Since neither can have the alternative proven, whence should we err? We should err on the side of NOT BEING JUDGMENTAL.

Edited March 23, 2007 by CaritateDei

[Guest LadyC]

people are NOT born alcoholic. where on earth did you get that idea? i've never seen a single article, scientific or otherwise that states one can be born an alcoholic, unless you consider a newborn withdrawing from fetal alcohol syndrome to be evidence of being born as one. but even then it wouldn't be genetic, it would be a result of having been fed a steady diet of alcohol inutero and developing an addiction to it.

and for the record, i know it's the modern, PC thing to do to consider oneself ALWAYS an addict of some sort.... recovering addict is one of those terms that is frequently used.

but one CAN be totally recovered, totally delivered, from any addiction an no longer need to bear the addict label.

[artsylady]

I can handle the idea of a recovering homosexual. Someone struggling to overcome and battling the thoughts.

I think as long as they are battling and not acting they can fully recover. Thousands have testified to this. There's a major website for recovering homosexuals but I can't remember the name of it right now, but people eventually do recover. The battle can eventually be one. The devil gets tired of trying to tempt when one constantly has on the armour of God.

You've asked why homosexuals would CHOOSE this lifestyle? I wouldn't exactly say the temptations themselves are a choice. Acting on them is a choice.

The fact is that they CHOOSe to overcome it. They really do and they tell us that they really have. Why anyone CHOOSE not to believe them?

Kind of off topic, but let's take a lesbian who prefer a 'masculine' type of female. Was she born with a tendency towards females who look more like men? And what about the gay man who prefer a 'feminine' type of man. Was he born with tendency to prefer a man that acts and talks like a woman?

When I was much younger, I was attracted to tall, dark and handsome. Pretty much what I learned from childhood. Then, I married him. When he was physically violent and a philander I left him. After that, I changed from liking tall dark and handsome to short. My height (of best of all, my height when I'm wearing heels). My preference changed based upon my experiences.

Most gay people have had the devil working on them in the real battlefield - the mind - since childhood.

One survey on gay men stated that most by far were not abused as children. Yet, the same numbers said that their first sexual experience was on average at the age of six! What is going on with things like this.

I believe the medical community really does know that gays aren't born that way. But it's something so ingrained in their minds it feels that way.

I strongly favour nurture over nature. I believe we are products of our upbringing moreso than products of our genes. Some traits are definitely inherited, and easily PROVEN like musical ability, but sexual orientation? No way. They have the means to show us the proof and haven't come up with it!