Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Oh Hamburgers!]

The genesis of homosexuality is via nurture, not nature. It's an adventitious condition that, apart from a very small residue of hard-core cases, is strongly influenced by the culture, peer pressure, abysmal lack of moral standards, and family/marital disintegration surrounding the young person's early years. Dominant mothers, wimpy (and absent) fathers, early gender-MISidentity all work together in re producing the blatant sin of homosexuality.

I guess personally I think there is a mixture of both. If it was mostly nurture, that would mean that essentially the parents are to blame, the environment that they live in would lead to their sexual preference later in life. If nurture would be mostly to blame, homosexuals are much more victims of an unhealty childhood than they are guilty.

I will be honest that I don't know a lot about studies being conducted, but wouldn't a theory like this suggest that certain areas of the world that are more volatile would be more likely to develop children with homosexual tendencies? Also, compared to human history, children raised today are treated much better than most in the past. Let's say for example the middle ages. You would think that certain periods of time would have reflected a higher % of homosexuality, due to nurturing environments. However information that I have seen suggests that the % of homosexuals in a society roughly remains the same.

I don't know. While I could be persuaded to agree that there are nurturing aspects to homosexual habits, I just feel that there is a lot of nature built in. A small percentage of most animals are homosexual, and while I agree that humans and animals have many differences, and animals don't have "moral systems" or anything like that, it is a slightly eye opening thing to learn about, because our bodies have many similarities to those of animals. While some may argue that animals assert "dominance" on other animals of the same sex, the mere fact that it is a rough set percentage makes me question the complete accuracy of statements like that. The majority of animals do not have sex for pleasure, they have sex to create offspring. Therefore, a homosexual animal would not be doing it out of "lust", they would be doing it because that is how they are built. Animals I think we could all probably agree upon are much more about "nature" than "nurture".

Science has not difinitively proven if homosexuality is a trait that some are born with, or if homosexuality is something that is learned. That does not mean that scientists won't prove something in the future.

[artsylady]

I also think creativity, which IS I believe a genetic trait, (maybe I'm wrong here), but creativity IS a factor. How often do you see gay men in the fields of design and the arts. I believe that many just think outside of the box and are more able to manage sexual relations that are also outside the box. Let's face the facts. A man knows a man's body better than a woman does. So, rather than lovemaking being about communication and learning, it's about how can one get better satisfaction quicker.

Or, what about rock stars that turn to bisexuality? I believe that male rock stars are bombarded with sexual relations with loose women constantly and almost become bored with it after awhile. Thus, for some excitement turn to other forms of sexuality.

I definitely beleive it's spiritual. One guy was saying that if he went into a room of a hundred people, he could instantly spot the one gay man - even if the guy was fully masculine.

Don't gays make fun of this and call it 'gaydar'? How else IS this accomplished, if not a spiritual connection?

[Floatingaxe]

Again, where does God say that homosexuality is wrong? I've already discussed Corinthians, and Jesus never mentions homosexuality once. Sure, Paul says it, but I truly feel that he's preaching his own prejudices.

Are you blind by choice?

[artsylady]

Never trust your feelings brother. Always trust the scriptures.

Funny that you say that, because in another post you say:

QUOTE(artsylady @ Mar 25 2007, 08:41 PM)

f it was there, I think science would have found it by now.

I'm not sure what you mean. There is no science, there are scriptures, but you are going with your feelings.

Trust me, if there were conclusive studies that said that people WERE born gay, I would rethink my stance in a serious way.

"I don't think we can just blindly "trust the scriptures"."

I think we can. I was thinking about truth the other day. There seems to be so-called 'truth' all over the place - the Internet, books, documentaries, etc, etc, etc. but for every site, book and documentary, there are ones to contradict that truth. The only REAL thing we CAN trust is the Bible. It IS the ONLY truth.

"We can have faith in them, but if we took that approach, then science wouldn't have made any progress in the last 100 years."

I'm thinking in certain areas, science has digressed but that is another thread.

I don't think you sound harsh. But you do sound like you're already convinced and not about to budge.

[MeCajunboy]

the christian doctrine does NOT promote prejudice, inadvertantly or otherwise. the prejudice comes from those who can not distinguish the act from the individual and thus assume that since we don't support the ACT, we must be hating the individual who commits the act. this is pretty much the same thing as reverse-discrimination.

But you're saying that the INDIVIDUAL is the one going to hell, so it is about them.

That study wasn't a scientific one anyway - it was sociological.

"But, I still can't help feel that it isn't, and that's where the Christian doctrine inadvertently promotes prejudice."

Never trust your feelings brother. Always trust the scriptures.

Funny that you say that, because in another post you say:

f it was there, I think science would have found it by now.

I don't think we can just blindly "trust the scriptures". We can have faith in them, but if we took that approach, then science wouldn't have made any progress in the last 100 years. People would have just said "Meh.. science will figure itself out". We have to push ourselves to learn and discover more, not just in science, but in God.

So let me get the born-as-a-homosexual position correct. The Creator-God makes us "male and Female" as Jesus underscores in Matthew 19 - especially re holy matrimony - but He also deposited a pro-homosexual gene somewhere in our essential make-up? Quite to the contrary, WE are personally responsible for our own life & its decision-making. Life is a world of DECISIONS, right ones & wrong ones. Even Joshua said: "CHOOSE you this day whom you will serve." We CHOOSE to go...CHOOSE to say...CHOOSE to become precisely what we are. We CHOOSE to attend a certain school...CHOOSE to purchase a certain condo or house...CHOOSE to buy a certain car...CHOOSE to shack-up or CHOOSE a life-partner. We also CHOOSE to practice the abhorrent sin of homosexuality, one decision at a time commencing in our youth. We say YES, or we say NO. We say we will BELIEVE God on the matter or we will do what MAN tells us to do. One cannot escape life's decision-making process by saying, "The devil made me do it!" The sin of homosexuality is essentially by NURTURE, not nature. Millions have CHOSEN NOT to accommodate it in their lives.

So by that logic, we have all CHOSEN not be straight. If not, then God made us that way... why can't he make some us us gay?

Again, where does God say that homosexuality is wrong? I've already discussed Corinthians, and Jesus never mentions homosexuality once. Sure, Paul says it, but I truly feel that he's preaching his own prejudices.

Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh, I dont' mean to.

Homosexuality IS mentioned both in the Old Testament and the New Testament as well. Ladies and Gentlemen, you will find an "INDEX" in the rear of your Bibles, normally! Please use the term, homosexuality, impure sex, or unclean sex to locate the many scriptures/versus to satisfy you greivences. Don't trust your own knowledge......TRUST GOD! Again, the thing you have to know is "GET IT RIGHT !" At least in your own life if it is applicable. Because, the simple truth is, "if we are wrong about our conception of homosexuality or sexuality or fornication or any other sins that offend God, we know the penalties if one doesn't REPENT !!!!

Blessings

Cajunboy

[Ovedya]

All humans are born with the propensity to sin. We can see from simple experience that some people have a propensity toward one aspect of sin than others. Homosexuals are simply those among humanity that are more feminine and have the propensity to lust toward other men/women.

As believers we all know very well that sin is genetic. That means that homosexuality is no less genetic. But where a man whose lust is toward adultery, sins of the flesh, etc., we all have the choice to act or not act upon our desires. Being gay - living out the "gay lifestyle" and continually committing the sin of homosexuality - is always a choice.

[Arthur Durnan]

Right on! And I personally CHOOSE to accept the verification of all the research scientists I mentioned earlier - and which no pro-homosexuality advocate has referred to - as well as the Judeo-Christian declarations of both the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians and the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 19 re "male and female," and never once "Adam and Freddie." It's fairly difficult, isn't it, to unring a bell? Those who push "Pro-CHOICE" re the killing of babies in the womb for some strange reason detest it practically everwhere else. I love it, I love it, but will it play in Peoria? Maybe San Francisco, yes, but not Peoria.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[The Lorax]

This issue concerns and confuses me. I am bisexual but I have done everything in my power to avoid the lusting the other side. I have a girlfriend and we have a great relationship so fortunately that hasn't been a problem lately.

I don't know the extent to which sexuality is genetic, but I am 100% sure I never had a choice in the matter, and people should never be blamed for a choice they didn't make. Gays have enough on their plates already; it is needless and cruel for us to make them social and religious pariahs as well.

But I wonder why God cares and even if He cares. Like paulo suggested, there is the possibility that mortal prejudices found their way into our holy book. (Indeed, gays have been hated in every society and Israel was no exception.) I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I'd like to see how much Biblical evidence there is against homosexuality compared to the other sins.

[artsylady]

Hi Lorax:

I am curious as to whether or not you've read the entire thread as we seem to keep trying to go over the same issues.

If you've read through the whole thread, you will probably see that there is thought provoking questions and dialogue that you might want to consider.

I will also try to find the website of the organization that gay people become converted. Sorry, I can't say more right now. Gotta run.

[Guest LadyC]

But you're saying that the INDIVIDUAL is the one going to hell, so it is about them.

ALL individuals are going to hell IF they choose to ignore God.

if the person is unwilling to choose NOT to engage in homosexual acts, they will go to hell. if you don't like that, take it up with God. WE don't condemn the person, the person's ACTIONS condemn them.