Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[jewelz123]

I'd be curious to see how many people on these boards actually know any gays and lesbians? I would think that first hand exposure would weigh on your opinion.

My uncle In-Law is gay. And I'm a christian who struggled with what to believe about homosexuality. At first I thought God was mean to sentence them to a life without love but as I continued to read the Bible and really think it through, I realized that God had nothing to do with a person being gay - only their behavior makes them a homosexual. Our thoughts do not define us - our actions do.

All of us have thoughts that we have to control/restrain/repress/ignore. All of us. And in myriad ways! This struggle deserves no more respect simply because it is popular these days.

In the 50's it was unpopular to have sex before marriage - in the 60's that became more popular - in the 70's it was expected to have sex before marriage - then in the 80's everyone started living together instead of marrying - and now in the 90's and 00's having children outside of marriage is becoming popular and parents give their children rubbers before a date because they believe abstinence is not even possible.

And now the homosexual community wants the right to marry.... Sinful nature is always looking for more ways to express itself.

Because I love my uncle I understand how to love the sinner and hate the sin. That has been a good lesson for me. He is in a relationship with a man who was formerly married and has two children. And I reveal this to show that this lifestyle clearly was a choice for him. He essentially made a life choice based on who he has better sex with (obviously he was able to have sex with both). That is supremely selfish and destructive to all those he had made commitments to. Clearly his sex life was more important to him than the needs of his family by his own actions. Even though this is the situation - I love him. It's easy to. I don't have to hate him or the whole community because I can see how wrong it is.

I have also worked for a lesbian boss. I worked with so many gay men I can't remember how many. We had no problems getting along. We were friends and co-workers who got along great and teased each other about our stereotypes. We still keep in contact nowthat I have changed jobs. But they know not to send me an invitation to man-man wedding or have PDA's in front of me. You'd be surprised how people know intuitively what behavior to restrain in order to be respectful to each other. It's not hard to do!

The best chance I have to bring God to others is by others liking me and respecting me enough to want me around. If I were pushy and arrogant in my approach - no matter how correct my views are - it would do just the opposite. Hopefully when they think of christians, they will think of me and not have a bad taste in their mouth.

Sorry I got off track a bit!

jewelz123

Edited May 9, 2007 by jewelz123

[Floatingaxe]

I knew a guy for many years and never suspected he was gay. I often thought why he never tried to pursued a woman. But he was sure glad I came over, lol. Now I know why

He lives a lonely life thou. His family disbanded him. Too ugly to get either gender (he looks half man half woman). Poor guy. He told me one time that he never asked for that hell and he doesn't understand why women don't interest him as much as men.

That is why i think Gays have it twice as bad as us straits. Sorry Ovedya, I'm strait .

Well, you think he has it bad because he's homely.

Maybe so...but the rest have it bad because they choose to go against the grain.

[Floatingaxe]

YOUR grain works if you don't have the urge

words are always better than action. Especially thous who don't have it.

Well, justaguy, some people are just perverse. It could be a generational curse, or a demonic interference. These things are very deep-seated, and there is no way of knowing on the surface what it is that has happened to that person in early life.

Sometimes people just don't care about themselves and throw all caution to the wind and delve headlong into homosexuality. Too bad.

[Celtic Warrior]

This seems a strange argument to me, LadyC; this means that God also makes children with congenital birth defects or diseases such as progeria, forms Siamese twins, makes some babies be with their organs on the outside of their body and lets children be formed as the result of incestuous relations. If these things aren't mistakes and they aren't cruel, then what are they?

homosexuality is a sin, one that God abhors, and one that He says will cause eternal separation from His kingdom. brith defects, diseases, etc. may seem cruel to human standards, but they will not cause eternal separation from God. children born of incest is not a sin of the child that will cause the child to be separated from God... it is a result of the sin of the parent(s).

by the way, many disagree with me here on this one point, but i'll make it anyway. i do not believe that it is God's will for every child to be conceived. i believe that pregnancies are often purely the consequences of the actions of the parent(s). (i put the plural in parenthesis because a rape victim or incest victim is generally not a willing participant.) but once conception occurs, God does knit together the child in the womb. why He forms some children with birth defects is something i may ask Him when i see Him in heaven.

God is not cruel. He would never create a person for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.

No, God doesn't create people for the express purpose of going to hell (or does he? Look at Judas, Caiphas and Pharoagh), but He DOES give people challenges to overcome and homosexual tendancies ARE one of them. As to sins, the TWO references to Homosexuality in the NT ALSO include Heterosexual sins, as well as other sins, so God isn't singling out Homosexuals by any means. God abhors ALL SIN!!! AND we're ALL born sinners, thanks to Adam and Eve, and it seems to me that Paul wrote that Eve Sinned, and Adam's sin was basically hearkening unto his wifes voice. Just because some Christians like to take those two passages and create a case for special hatred doesn't make them right. Homosexuals are people, AND sinners, just like all of us and are subject to Grace and God's mercy just like anyone else. Would God create them that way? Not in the perfect world HE created NO. But the world was changed, ALL OF CREATION was changed by the Fall, so who are you to say that Genetic traits could not have been changed as well. Even if it isn't genetic, there are still hormonal and development issues that happen as the baby forms and grows. The is NO GENE for gender either, that is chromosonal, and in some species of animals the gender is even determined by hormonal release at the proper time. What goes into forming the child is far beyond anything man completely understands and for one human to stand back and decide she knows all the in's outs wheretofores of everything is blatant arrogance. Homosexuals have a problem, as do heterosexuals, having prejudicial and hatefilled attitudes goes NOWHERE toward solving those problems, NOR DOES IT HELP IN BRINGING THEM TO CHRIST. I even know conservative Christians who deny a homosexual can ever become a Christian, by the attitudes that vilely spill out of their mouths, and I know God doesn't support that claim at all

It's amazing how so many claiming to be on the side of Jesus can find so many ways to support, engender and promote hate, prejudice, bias and animosity, by race, gender, creed, sexual orientation, nationality and even height & weight instead of promoting the loving, understanding, supportive ideals promoted by their Lord Jesus Christ. God says He desires ALL to come to Him, and that includes Homosexuals. As Christians it is our job to be Salt and Light to bring them to Him, not be self righteous bigots pushing them into cubbyholes that isolate them from the ONE HOPE they have.

How they come to be Homosexuals is NOT important in the overall scheme of things, and with the broken Creation it is more than possible that genetic changes could be part of the equation, as well as hormonal and chromosomal ones during early development. You can deny it all you wish, but your denial is meaningless without proof and evidence. Nor do I support the other side, except that I recognize the possibility can exist, and I realize that the cause is very unimportant, what's important is bringing them to Jesus, NOTHING ELSE!!!

[Celtic Warrior]

This seems a strange argument to me, LadyC; this means that God also makes children with congenital birth defects or diseases such as progeria, forms Siamese twins, makes some babies be with their organs on the outside of their body and lets children be formed as the result of incestuous relations. If these things aren't mistakes and they aren't cruel, then what are they?

homosexuality is a sin, one that God abhors, and one that He says will cause eternal separation from His kingdom. brith defects, diseases, etc. may seem cruel to human standards, but they will not cause eternal separation from God. children born of incest is not a sin of the child that will cause the child to be separated from God... it is a result of the sin of the parent(s).

by the way, many disagree with me here on this one point, but i'll make it anyway. i do not believe that it is God's will for every child to be conceived. i believe that pregnancies are often purely the consequences of the actions of the parent(s). (i put the plural in parenthesis because a rape victim or incest victim is generally not a willing participant.) but once conception occurs, God does knit together the child in the womb. why He forms some children with birth defects is something i may ask Him when i see Him in heaven.

God is not cruel. He would never create a person for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.

No, God doesn't create people for the express purpose of going to hell (or does he? Look at Judas, Caiphas and Pharoagh), but He DOES give people challenges to overcome and homosexual tendancies ARE one of them. As to sins, the TWO references to Homosexuality in the NT ALSO include Heterosexual sins, as well as other sins, so God isn't singling out Homosexuals by any means. God abhors ALL SIN!!! AND we're ALL born sinners, thanks to Adam and Eve, and it seems to me that Paul wrote that Eve Sinned, and Adam's sin was basically hearkening unto his wifes voice. Just because some Christians like to take those two passages and create a case for special hatred doesn't make them right. Homosexuals are people, AND sinners, just like all of us and are subject to Grace and God's mercy just like anyone else. Would God create them that way? Not in the perfect world HE created NO. But the world was changed, ALL OF CREATION was changed by the Fall, so who are you to say that Genetic traits could not have been changed as well. Even if it isn't genetic, there are still hormonal and development issues that happen as the baby forms and grows. The is NO GENE for gender either, that is chromosonal, and in some species of animals the gender is even determined by hormonal release at the proper time. What goes into forming the child is far beyond anything man completely understands and for one human to stand back and decide she knows all the in's outs wheretofores of everything is blatant arrogance. Homosexuals have a problem, as do heterosexuals, having prejudicial and hatefilled attitudes goes NOWHERE toward solving those problems, NOR DOES IT HELP IN BRINGING THEM TO CHRIST. I even know conservative Christians who deny a homosexual can ever become a Christian, by the attitudes that vilely spill out of their mouths, and I know God doesn't support that claim at all

It's amazing how so many claiming to be on the side of Jesus can find so many ways to support, engender and promote hate, prejudice, bias and animosity, by race, gender, creed, sexual orientation, nationality and even height & weight instead of promoting the loving, understanding, supportive ideals promoted by their Lord Jesus Christ. God says He desires ALL to come to Him, and that includes Homosexuals. As Christians it is our job to be Salt and Light to bring them to Him, not be self righteous bigots pushing them into cubbyholes that isolate them from the ONE HOPE they have.

How they come to be Homosexuals is NOT important in the overall scheme of things, and with the broken Creation it is more than possible that genetic changes could be part of the equation, as well as hormonal and chromosomal ones during early development. You can deny it all you wish, but your denial is meaningless without proof and evidence. Nor do I support the other side, except that I recognize the possibility can exist, and I realize that the cause is very unimportant, what's important is bringing them to Jesus, NOTHING ELSE!!!

[Floatingaxe]

YOUR grain works if you don't have the urge

words are always better than action. Especially thous who don't have it.

Well, justaguy, some people are just perverse. It could be a generational curse, or a demonic interference. These things are very deep-seated, and there is no way of knowing on the surface what it is that has happened to that person in early life.

Sometimes people just don't care about themselves and throw all caution to the wind and delve headlong into homosexuality. Too bad.

*buzzer sounding in the back ground*

Do you have homosexual tendency? no.

Do I, no.

Why do some? because they were made that way.

Did you ever wanted to try? no.

Did I? no.

Why others? Because they were made that way.

Ever wanted to force yourself? no.

Did I? no

Why do some? Because they were made that way.

You people need to get off your "cuz the Bible said so" trip. unless you believe in reincarnation, these selected few did not deserve the curse of same sex stuff. I dont have it. Do you? If not, you dont understand. Yes, neither do I. So until proven otherwise, they cant help it.

If it truly is a curse, then it comes through the family...sins of the father stuff...

If not--it is a curse anyway..the curse of sin. We are all sinners anyway, justaguy. They need to repent and turn from their sinful ways.

Everyone can help it. When God tells us not to do something, He isn't being unreasonable. It is not impossible to obey God.

[Guest LadyC]

and how do you know that i, or anyone else who is heterosexual on this board, hasn't been tempted to try a homosexual fling? how do you know that we've never had that urge? how do you know that anyone was "made" that way when God created us all, and God clearly didn't create us that way? i'd be willing to bet that, if people would admit honestly, probably 70% or more of us have had at least the thought cross our minds in private fantasy... because our thought patterns ARE heavily influenced by what we see and hear, and many people here have struggled with pornography addiction which is just FULL of homosexual acts.

i'm sorry you feel that we should get off our "the bible told me so" kick. but if you really think that, then why are you here? we're not going to get off that kick. the Bible is God's word, and as such is the final authority.

for the record, God DID create each of us as SEXUAL beings. we have sexual urges. and they are incredibly strong. but that doesn't excuse us from the responsibility of acting on those urges withink God's guidelines. homosexual urges are no stronger than heterosexual ones.

[Floatingaxe]

*raises hand*

er...never had an urge or fantasy like that. Which is why I probably don't understand why its a sin if it is something that cant be helped. Surely someone in the heavens has to know the answer to that. Which is, why one do and the other dont? Surely you need the urge first before you commit to sin. Why is it that I don't have it? That is why I question the authors of the Bible's motive. Why is it evil would be something I'd ask God. I don't think god views it as evil if he created it.

Therefore I am standing outside of these events and can't understand why they would do such a thing unless...ah, yes! Unless they can't help it! Thank God I don't have that urge. Otherwise I'd be rich like Elton John!

I wonder if the remaining people who had never experienced the urges or fantasy, agrees with me.

God DID NOT create homosexuality!

You don't have the urge because you may just be more on the "normal" side! Homosexuality is an act of depravity. People can refuse it, but because they don't bother to listen to their God-given consciences, they jump in with both feet. It's the deep end, folks!

The only lifebuoy is Jesus!

[Floatingaxe]

In the beginning, there was God. Nothing but God. Everything after that He created. Very simple process. Homosexuality wouldn't survive without the creation of Humans or the devil (or sin for that matter). Guess who made those? Sure wasn't homosexuals. Unless you are calling Lucifer a creator, wasn't him either.

Mankind, in cahoots with Satan devised the sin. Nothing new.

[Floatingaxe]

Without God, there wouldn't be homosexuals. So it is possible that God made mistakes in the human chemistry? For it is there that the reactions take place and the thinking process stimulates the sexual organs. Without that chemical reaction, you don't get that urge.

So...

How did the Humans spawn homosexuals? How did the devil change our chemical make-up? I thought it was about choices, not hard wired suffering? So tell me more how Humans and Devil got together and decided it'd be cool to change the chemical make-up.

Why wasn't I given that choice?

It's called SIN. You are given the choice.