Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Guest LadyC]

*raises hand*

er...never had an urge or fantasy like that. Which is why I probably don't understand why its a sin if it is something that cant be helped. Surely someone in the heavens has to know the answer to that. Which is, why one do and the other dont? Surely you need the urge first before you commit to sin. Why is it that I don't have it? That is why I question the authors of the Bible's motive. Why is it evil would be something I'd ask God. I don't think god views it as evil if he created it.

Therefore I am standing outside of these events and can't understand why they would do such a thing unless...ah, yes! Unless they can't help it! Thank God I don't have that urge. Otherwise I'd be rich like Elton John!

I wonder if the remaining people who had never experienced the urges or fantasy, agrees with me.

sexual sin comes in all forms. i have no doubt that even if you haven't had THAT thought, you've had sexually sinful thoughts. if you acted on them, you were guilty. if you haven't repented of them, you still are.

practicing homosexuals have not repented. unless one repents of their sinfulness and turns away from it, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

[jewelz123]

er...never had an urge or fantasy like that. Which is why I probably don't understand why its a sin if it is something that cant be helped.

Men in prison explore homosexual options when outside those walls they are hetero. You haven't had a fantasy - perhaps it isn't your weakness, but the devil knows which one is and he looks for more. Could pride be your weakness?

I don't have it? That is why I question the authors of the Bible's motive. Why is it evil would be something I'd ask God. I don't think god views it as evil if he created it.

The bible says it is the only sin the person actually receives inside the body. Think about that for while. It's different than any other sin.

When you say that you "don't think God views it as evil if he created it" - that summation makes no sense - the bible is His word and He didn't create sin and he does say it is abominable. What you are really saying is that you think you understand better than God(pride). We all probably think that when we don't understand - we think our questions are so good that we shatter other ideas (pride). In truth, we only show how much we need to learn.

Therefore I am standing outside of these events and can't understand why they would do such a thing unless...ah, yes! Unless they can't help it! Thank God I don't have that urge. Otherwise I'd be rich like Elton John!

That sounds like an open invitation for the devil to test you, to me.

I wonder if the remaining people who had never experienced the urges or fantasy, agrees with me.

No - I don't agree. I'm a straight married female. But when Madonna did the Girlie Tour in the early 90's the images were everywhere in the media. I must have been persuaded by it (I do love her). The ideas were in my mind - the whole forbidden attraction made it titillating (before I was a christian). I never acted on the urge. After I became a christian I thought back on those fantasies and realized what had happened. Sin looks for more places to inhabit - more ways to express itself - it's goal is to spread. If I had given in to it - it would have continued to grow. Who knows if I would be married now? This part of my character was not weak enough to give in and in the end, all those fantasies faded away. I know that sin/the devil has found other areas that I have been weak (not sexual, don't get any ideas) and in which I'm always working to strengthen myself against.

When I became a christian some specific things changed in me immediately. When this happens to you - you have evidence of God. One of the things that has changed - I just put this together, maybe the above is why - but I can't watch sexual content on tv anymore. No more Sex in the City or Taxi Cab Confessions for me. I can't listen to swear words either - and the day before I was a christian I had a potty mouth. Now I get physically uncomfortable (so hard to describe the sensation) and have to turn the channel fast or get away from whoever is cussing. I can't be around it/exposed to it because of the way it makes me feel physically. And this is not a sensation/feeling that I ever had before.

I have revealed some personal things to try to illustrate sin and differences between the believer and the non-believer. We view the world from the point of view of the bible because we can clearly see that the world works exactly the way the bible describes. Not because it's a book that's thinking for us and we aren't capable of our own thoughts. I believe IN God and I have now learned enough to BELIEVE God. Before you or I ever reasoned or questioned - God had already answered.

Edited May 10, 2007 by jewelz123

[jewelz123]

In the beginning, there was God. Nothing but God. Everything after that He created. Very simple process. Homosexuality wouldn't survive without the creation of Humans or the devil (or sin for that matter). Guess who made those? Sure wasn't homosexuals. Unless you are calling Lucifer a creator, wasn't him either.

Lucifer strives to be a creator - yes you get it! Everything he does is an immitation of the Trinity. But because he is not perfect - his ways are very flawed. God made sex to be between a man and woman as a love expression and procreation. The devil twisted it into all the variations we know of. Lucifer's goal is to separate man from God to glorify himself.

Yes God made everything - but he didn't create sin. He created the possibility of sin. There is a difference there. God created choices. I know murder is an option - I don't choose it as a solution. When we choose the opposite of His way, we sin. We let a negative essence into our soul/body/spirit that acts as a cancer to destroy and separate us from God. This is what Lucifer wants. That's why sin is usually fun and self serving.

When we believe that homosexuality or any sin isn't wrong and that the bible/God needs to be updated - we are giving evidence to how far we have drifted from God and His ways. Like being in a boat on water - the land appears to get farther away. But it is us that has drifted, and like the land, God is still in the exact same spot.

[Guest LadyC]

Does the Bible list these 'sexual sins'? Doubt it.

uh, YES, it does. have you not bothered to read the Bible that you are so quick to dispute?

[Guest LadyC]

Oh, got to love how the Bible tells you how to treat your wife. Yeah. Good stuff.

yeah, it IS good stuff. apparently you are making assumptions on something you haven't bothered to read. AGAIN. that's as ignorant of a statement as this one is:

Yes, homosexual people practicing homosexuality are guilty of it. Nothing wrong with that. Even in God's eyes. He created it. Had to. We sure didn't.

[Guest LadyC]

how a husband should treat a wife:

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. Ephesians 5:22-30

Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with

understanding, giving honor to the wife,

... that your prayers may not be hindered. 1 Pet. 3:7

hmmm, love, cherish, nourish, understanding, giving honour, those sound pretty grand to me! and those are just a few things in two little passages. READ the Bible before you try to dispute it. it may surprise you. 1 cor. 7 even goes into detail about a husband's sexual responsibility towards his wife... that the husband is required to sexually fulfill his wife. doubless your comprehension of whatever you read in the books you mentioned was severely lacking. how about if you post quotes of what you are referring to so that we can clarify your misunderstandings.

ok now let's cover your other question, the list of sexual sins... i'll name a few here that are in the Bible, you'll forgive me if i don't give chapter and verse because there are literally hundreds of scriptures which cover these...

adultry

fornication

lust of another person (besides your spouse)

rape

denying your spouse of sexual intimacy

prostitution

bestiality

incest

dressing/behaving in an effiminate manner

homosexual acts

acts which bring harm to your body or your spouse's.

[Guest LadyC]

thank you.

but it's God's word that is right, not "mine". i'm just standing on His word.

[Ovedya]

Whoever said that old fashioned was bad? Someday someone will want to marry a goat and have the legal right to have intercourse with it. Some will say, "Why not? It's his right to love animals." Others will be happy that they are "old fashioned."

[Floatingaxe]

*raises hand*

er...never had an urge or fantasy like that. Which is why I probably don't understand why its a sin if it is something that cant be helped. Surely someone in the heavens has to know the answer to that. Which is, why one do and the other dont? Surely you need the urge first before you commit to sin. Why is it that I don't have it? That is why I question the authors of the Bible's motive. Why is it evil would be something I'd ask God. I don't think god views it as evil if he created it.

Therefore I am standing outside of these events and can't understand why they would do such a thing unless...ah, yes! Unless they can't help it! Thank God I don't have that urge. Otherwise I'd be rich like Elton John!

I wonder if the remaining people who had never experienced the urges or fantasy, agrees with me.

sexual sin comes in all forms. i have no doubt that even if you haven't had THAT thought, you've had sexually sinful thoughts. if you acted on them, you were guilty. if you haven't repented of them, you still are.

practicing homosexuals have not repented. unless one repents of their sinfulness and turns away from it, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Does the Bible list these 'sexual sins'? Doubt it. Unless you will conveniently hide the whole show, the Bible fails in that regard, like doing things with your off springs, or having more wives than your toe count. I'm sure it tells in some respect to admire only single ladies. Not married ones. Oh, got to love how the Bible tells you how to treat your wife. Yeah. Good stuff. So lets not go there. Bible talking about how to treat opposite or same sex sins are out of date.

Yes, homosexual people practicing homosexuality are guilty of it. Nothing wrong with that. Even in God's eyes. He created it. Had to. We sure didn't. And I can cheerfully tell you that there isn't anything in the Bible that said the devil made homosexuality.

So if the Bible missed stating that the devil made sin, we can then go to the beginning of time and see that before sin, there was God.

The devil is the originator of SIN. So, as that is true, God has no responsibility in its appearance. There is no place in God's Word that says that God created it! Why would He? It originates in the mind of a sinner. God doesn't sin. He is Holy.

Your concept of God is sadly lacking.

[Guest LadyC]

Ah, here are some God's words...

I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children (genesis) No such pain is inflicted on Adam.

this was a judgement that came about (someone correct me if i'm wrong here) as a result of eve's transgression against God. but ask any mother if she would rather have skipped the pain if it meant having a child? it's not THAT bad.

(Deuteronomy) What God is saying is if you are a man, and you rape a girl, she gets to be your wife.

this was for the protection of the woman who had been raped. once she was no longer a virgin, she would be unlikely to ever marry, regardless of the reason, because that was the CULTURE of the time. by forcing the offender to marry her and never divorce her, God was ensuring that she would be provided for. do i think that stinks? well yeah, i do, because what woman would want to spend her life with her rapist. but this was directed at a specific culture.

(Peter) Husbands... and treat wives with respect as the weaker partner.

yes, you are definitely, without a doubt, lacking comprehension as to what this means. you apparently missed the importance in that verse of the word RESPECT. the vast majority of women throughout history have been "weaker" in the sense that they were physically not as capable of providing for themselves. women are also designed to be more emotional... that isn't a 'weakness' in God's eyes, but it certainly is in the eyes of many men... and even of many women. but being more emotional than a man is, in many ways, a STRENGTH that we have. we are the nurturers of our family. we have our own set of rules and responsibilities. but the man is to treat us with respect and honour for our position, in every way, including phsycially, financially, emotionally, and so on. again, the key word here is respect, not "weaker". neither God (nor peter) was inferring that women should be treated as subordinate. in fact, scripture is very clear that within a marriage, the husband and wife are EQUAL.

(Moses in Numbers) Making sex slaves of women apparently is God's will. "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

this was not about making girls sex slaves. nobody had to endure any sort of "test" to determine if they were virgins. this passage refers to women who are NOT MARRIED and NOT PROSTITUTES, to be taken care of and provided for, protected. they WERE, however, taken as servants... and i'm not sure if you are aware or not but at the end of seven years, each servent was to be set free if they so chose. their servitude during those 7 years were as payment for being provided for. and this was also referring to a specific event in history, a war with the midianites.

1 Corinthians chapter 14?

oh, how bout 1 Corinthians chapter 11. God said "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head--it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."

ah, this surprises me... only because the debate over this scriptural passage is USUALLY in threads about hair length, not about the treatment of women.

the first part is essentially the chain of command... God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of a man, a man is the head of the household. i believe keeping the head veiled was two-fold... firstly, she needed to be covered by her husband, and if she had no husband, by Christ. we ARE to be submissive to the authority of Christ, and the husband is spiritually responsible for the wife. bear in mind that within the context of marriage, the man and wife are equals to each other, and the husband is ALSO to be submissive to the wife. secondly, the issue of whether she cuts off her hair needs to be taken in context with the culture. temple prostitutes kept their heads shaved. a woman who kept her hair shaved or cut short in that culture was associated with immorality and not only could cause tongues to wag (and God warns us about gossip) but also could cause men to stumble in sexual temptation.

Anyway, the Bible is old fashion in all aspect in sex. Enjoy your life.

oh really? LOL, you haven't read the songs of solomon, have you? nothing "old fashioned" about the graphic sexuality in that book. but thank you, i will enjoy my life.