Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Guest LadyC]

it doesn't matter why your friend finds sex with a woman revolting. that has no bearing on his ability to control his actions. likewise, if a heterosexual finds sex with someone of the same sex to be revolting, it has no bearing on THAT person's ability to control their own actions regarding those of the opposite sex.

[None]

People were born with genes and social circumstances already set in place for them to fall into various sins more easily.

Example:

The people who were born with stronger inclinations towards overeating often realize that this is their shackle and they must overcome it. To use genes and circumstances as an excuse is to include the sin of laziness to gluttany.

The same is true for a person given the excuse of "homosexual tendencies". That word is an excuse to continue the practice of homosexual sin. There are many excuses given to people in sinful situations. These excuses are "offences".

Matthew 18:7

7)Woe unto the world because of offences!

for it must needs be that offences come;

but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

So a man grows up recieving such excuses and acceptance of his sin of homosexuality,

the ones giving him these excuses are far more to blame then that man.Matthew 18:6.

The man, however, is still responsible for his own actions.

Jesus was fast to forgive sins of everyone He met. He told them to go and sin no more.

He never once gave an excuse or told them it was okay because He understood their circumstances. No. He said, "...sin no more.".

Fortunately for us, we were given the Holy Spirit as our strength and Comforter when we are in a weakened state and ready to turn toward sin. Remember that excuses are what block view of that fact just before we fall into sin.

This is why Jesus was harsher on the excuse givers(Pharisees,scribes,publicans etc.).

[None]

If anything, his struggles with being gay have brought him closer to Christ in search of answers.

Then he's like the rest of us in that he struggles with a sin;

but don't say homosexuality is not something he's choosing to do willingly. He can stop.

He's a slave of that sin but there is a way out of it if people around him would stop giving him the go-ahead to do it.

I feel sorry for people given over to drug addictions, alcohol and smoking, it's all the same thing...they're all bound by slave drivers who kill their victims slowly. The slaves of these sins allowed themselves to walk into what looked innocent at the time, often pressured by an ignorant peer, and now they're in a trap struggling to get out.

He's been ridiculed his whole life for being who he is, and that's not right.

No, that's terribly sad. Only God can judge a person and He takes in every single detail and all the circumstances of their entire life, including the peers who lead them down a wrong path. The most important decision your friend has made is to accept Jesus into His life. I pray he keeps battling his sin and doesn't give in to the false information the world so abundantly offers as an excuse to continue on in his sin.

All Christians who give in to accepting a sin because of popular opinion, no matter who they are, are in danger of a harsh judgement by God Himself. I would not want to be in their shoes when that comes, and it will.

[Floatingaxe]

he CAN control his actions.

then why does his find sex with a woman revolting?

Because he's perverted?

Sheer outta luck?

[jewelz123]

ya know, just because he abhors one sin greater than another sin does not mean he is willing to tolerate either sin. think about it. if your own kid sneaks out the window and heads off to the nearest party in the middle of the night, are you going to tolerate it any more than if he sneaks out and brutally rapes some innocent six year old kid? nope, but i bet you're going to find the latter to be more vile on a personal level.

God tolerates no sin. but he created man and woman in His own image, and their intimacy, the two of them joining in unison to become ONE, is a physical reflection of the triune nature of God.... it is more than a physical connection between a husband and wife. so of course God is going to be far more repulsed by the act of two men joining together as one flesh, because it totally perverts what He created sexuality for in the first place.

But why pay a particular attention to a sin and modify its standing to a abomination? Is there a lessor sin? We know that there isn't. We know that God view all sins as equal. Therefore, only man can add that adjective. Which to me means that only man had the problem with homosexuality. Not god.

My two cents on this question is that the word abomination is used to describe the devil/lucifer or his acts and influences in the bible . The devil always mimics God and the trinity in every way. Where God created sex between a man and a woman - Lucifer created sex between the same sexes. Because it's a distorted mimic of God's creation of sex - the bible uses the word abomination. Like a double sin - a sin committed during an act outside of God's plan. Now when a man and woman have sex outside of marriage, they are sinning (adultery) but still behaving within God's created idea of sex (between man and woman).

This is how I have been able to understand the difference between an abomination and a sin.

[jewelz123]

Can anyone know anyone completely accept for God Himself? All you know is what you see with your human eyes and hear with your human ears, can you see his heart? Can you say, from God's perspective, that your friend truely lives his life through Jesus Christ?

So you agree then that this is between God and my friend? Because if it is, then you can't say that he doesn't.

Based on what you yourself have stated about your friend, he is actively commiting the sin of homosexuality.

I don't agree with that, sorry. He's not actively committing something he can't control. That's like saying we're actively committing to be hetrosexuals. If it's such a "choice", then everyone - both gay and straight - had to choose. That's what choice is all about. Hetrosexuals never choose not be be gay, but homosexuals did? That defies logic.

He's struggled with it for years, and still struggles with it even after accepting Christ. But, he's come more to terms with who he is throw Jesus. If anything, his struggles with being gay have brought him closer to Christ in search of answers. He's been ridiculed his whole life for being who he is, and that's not right. This whole conversation brings me to the passing of Jerry Farwell. Let's just hope that a little bit of the hate in this world died with him.

The few verses in the Bible that mention homosexuality can be taken either way, that's all I've ever said.

Please quote those bible verses that can be taken "either way".

Homosexuals do make a choice - the choice is to ACT OUT their desires. Their desires are what they say they can't control(and need help to do so). The desires come from the devil/lucifer/evil that finds a weakness in the individual in this area and exploits it with the purpose of ruin. Just as if one is weak with drinking and becomes an alcoholic - they are giving in to their desires with their action. These are weaknesses within the individual through no fault of their own, however, they are still able to control their actions. If a man becomes attracted to children and ruminates on these thoughts - it's an evil weakness seeking to grow. But if he touches a child in a sexual manner - he chose to act out and has sinned.

Just because it is in our head does not give anyone license to act it out. The columbine kids had thoughts in their head that they acted out too. Their thoughts took them over and they gave in to them. If you believe the thought is the behavior then you should be just fine with what they did and not see it as evil or wrong - just something they couldn't control.

A thought is defined this way in the online dictionary to employ one's mind rationally and objectively in evaluating or dealing with a given situation: An action is defined this way something done or performed; act; deed

Clearly the difference is that a thought isn't material and it's existence does not define the person. It's existence is not a sin.

An action is external and material and it can become the way a person is defined. (runner, diver, molester, killer, over-eater etc.) The action can be a sin.

What we ALL choose are the boundaries in which we will live. God has given a guideline of the boundaries that will keep us from harm - living outside those parameters is a choice. What we have NO choices over can not BE sins, but there is very little that isn't a choice - color of our skin, sex, color of our eyes and hair etc.. Where there is no behavior involved, no choices/no actions - NO SINS. Where there IS behavior/choices/actions involved - there ARE sins. This is the free will that God gave us. If homosexuality isn't a choice then they were not given free will and we all know that isn't true.

None of us get through life without pain/problems/issues. I view mine as my cross to bear in this life and I view homosexuality and alcholism, etc. as the cross those people have to bear in their life. The fact that we all have a cross isn't a sin - it's how we carry it that can be.

P.S. You sounded rather hateful yourself talking about Jerry Falwell - I guess all the hate didn't die.

[jewelz123]

he CAN control his actions.

then why does his find sex with a woman revolting?

Because he's perverted?

Sheer outta luck?

He finds sex revolting because the desires for the unordinary/forbidden DESTROYS the desire for the ordinary.

The more things he does/tries/participates in/fantasizes about - the harder it would be to go back to the way God created him to behave because he has given over more and more of himself to this way of life. The shocking has become normal to him.

[None]

he CAN control his actions.

then why does his find sex with a woman revolting?

Because he's perverted?

Sheer outta luck?

He finds sex revolting because the desires for the unordinary/forbidden DESTROYS the desire for the ordinary.

The more things he does/tries/participates in/fantasizes about - the harder it would be to go back to the way God created him to behave because he has given over more and more of himself to this way of life. The shocking has become normal to him.

The same can be said for any over-stimulating pleasure, not just sex.

[jewelz123]

What would ya'll tell someone who thinks they want to have sex with a same-sex person?

I would say that a character weakness is being tested and not to give in to it. It's a thought, and it will pass if they don't give it any power over them.

If they do give in they will either succumb to the lifestyle or have a memory they will regret forever. Either way, nothing good will come of it. Nothing that will help or improve their life.

Don't go in a direction that will invite pain into your life. This too, will pass. (it's not scripture, but it should be!)

Hang tough - everyone has trials.

[None]

Paulo, there's no way you can misinterpret the literal way God discribed who is to have sexual relations and who is not. Example: people are told not to have sex with animals, was that a misinterpretation? Jesus clearly stated that when people want to live in their sin, they will read the Scriptures how they best suite their lifestyle. That's what your friend is doing.

Plain and simple.