Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[secondeve]

The first marriage WAS the marriage between the first man and the first woman. WE think GOD's way is the only way.

No, Eve, because what always happens with things God gives man is, in our fallen nature, we pervert it. Look at even some claiming to be Christian with 7 and 8 wives. Without God showing us what to do with what He gives us, we don't use it the right way.

But if marriage as first given to man isn't the marriage described in the Bible, how do Christians know that God thinks their way is the only way, or that another one might not be right?

The marriage first given to man is the marriage described in the Bible, Adam and Eve's. Again we come back to the Bible on this one. Marriage God's way's described in the Bible. I wish I could tell you in a way where I wouldn't have to use the Bible because I think that's what you were looking for originally, but it's so basic to our lives as Christians that it's difficult to do. It's God's Words for us.

Here's what I'm driving at: How is this possible if mankind is demonstrably shown to be older that 6000 years, and if the first human marriage could therefore not posibly be the one described in the Bible between Adam and Eve? How can you reconcile this?

Edited August 10, 2006 by secondeve

[billie]

The first marriage WAS the marriage between the first man and the first woman. WE think GOD's way is the only way.

No, Eve, because what always happens with things God gives man is, in our fallen nature, we pervert it. Look at even some claiming to be Christian with 7 and 8 wives. Without God showing us what to do with what He gives us, we don't use it the right way.

But if marriage as first given to man isn't the marriage described in the Bible, how do Christians know that God thinks their way is the only way, or that another one might not be right?

The marriage first given to man is the marriage described in the Bible, Adam and Eve's. Again we come back to the Bible on this one. Marriage God's way's described in the Bible. I wish I could tell you in a way where I wouldn't have to use the Bible because I think that's what you were looking for originally, but it's so basic to our lives as Christians that it's difficult to do. It's God's Words for us.

Here's what I'm driving at: How is this possible if mankind is demonstrably shown to be older that 6000 years, and if the first human marriage could therefore not posibly be the one described in the Bible between Adam and Eve? How can you possibly reconcile this?

I don't think Adam and Eve got married 6000 years ago.

[Floatingaxe]

Adam and Eve were the first married couple, and whether or not it was 6,000 years ago, or 60,000 years ago, it matters not. (I prefer to think it was more like 6,000 years ago, but that is my opinion.)

[Arialia]

I find it interesting that some people spend all their time and effort trying to prove that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle. There is no grey area in the Bible about this topic. It is clearly a sin and called an abomination.

I find it interesting how some people spend all of their time and effort trying to prove that being Christian is an acceptable lifestyle. There is no grey area in the Gospel of the Pink Unicorn about this topic. It is clearly a sin and called an abomination.

[Floatingaxe]

I find it interesting that some people spend all their time and effort trying to prove that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle. There is no grey area in the Bible about this topic. It is clearly a sin and called an abomination.

I find it interesting how some people spend all of their time and effort trying to prove that being Christian is an acceptable lifestyle. There is no grey area in the Gospel of the Pink Unicorn about this topic. It is clearly a sin and called an abomination.

Obdurate is as obdurate does.

(edited)

[georgesbluegirl]

Homosexuals all choose.

With respect, have you ever witnessed somebody dealing with "coming out?"

Because I have, and it was a struggle. I've told this story on Worthy before, but it's worth repeating. One of my good friends is gay. You probably wouldn't guess from looking at him; he doesn't conform to any stereotypes (other than that he reaaaaaally likes working out) - he's tough, has a lot of straight male friends, watches football and wears jeans and a tshirt for practically every occasion. But he's gay, and has known for sure since he was 18 or 19. Did he choose it? Absolutely not. I was with him when he was going through the anguish of what to do with this discovery and how to handle his family eventually. I can't believe that he chose that pain - if he could have opted into being straight to save all of that, he would have. He grew up being told that gay people are evil. His brother just got out of jail from serving a sentence for assault - he assaulted a gay man for being gay. He still keeps it a secret from about half his family. He is also a Christian. Because of all of these things, he fought a long time with himself and was pretty confused for a while, but in the end he just couldn't pretend. He is still one of my good friends, still a great person, still the same guy I've known for five years, and I have to say he's much more at peace now having the truth out in the open, despite the fact that he's still unsure what to do in the long run to address his family.

The bottom line is that he would have changed the way he felt if he could, but he couldn't. It wasn't weakness; he just isn't attracted to women (I know because I dated him for a while before all of this!). He is just who he is, and part of who he is - not all - is that he's gay.

[Floatingaxe]

Jump on me if you want, but if they really feel they didn't choose it, then it is demonic. But more than likely it is a combination of both.

[secondeve]

Jump on me if you want, but if they really feel they didn't choose it, then it is demonic. But more than likely it is a combination of both.

Consider yourself jumped on. If everything you disprove of in the world is demonic, then what happens to:

a) Human responsibility (for crimes, misdemeanours and sins); and

b) The fact that no human being is perfect, in your eyes or the eyes of anyone else?

If all gays are demonic, you strip them of humanity. If they aren't demonic, then they are - in your eyes, though not mine - imperfect; and aren't all humans equally imperfect? This kind of talk sickens me. As good to say that Christian crimes are the result of a battle with an adversary man is unable ever to defeat, but that the "sins" (in the eyes of Christians) of non-believers only makes them demonic, be it petty theft or homosexuality. After all, if the Bible doesn't differentiate one kind of sin from another, and if the sin of homosexuality makes a man demonic and thereby denies his humanity, then I, as a non-believer, am also demonic. Get your head on straight, Floatingaxe. This belief is appaling, and I'm not ashamed to say so.

[Floatingaxe]

You may believe as you wish, but I did not say all homosexuals are demonic. I am saying that there are some who have a homosexual demon. They do exist. As far as responsibility goes---we are responsible for letting them in.

Of course we are all imperfect. But with Jesus blood to atone for my sin, I can stand before God as righteous. So can you!

[Captain Malcolm Reynolds]

Bah.. quotes not working again, quotes are in bold now.

Moral is, I hesitate to put anyone in a box.

Well, except dead people.

I find it interesting that some people spend all their time and effort trying to prove that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle. There is no grey area in the Bible about this topic. It is clearly a sin and called an abomination.

So much for your name, Pax No peace for you

I am of the mind that once a person "gives over" into that perverse mindset of homosexuality, then there is a "giving over" into the demonic. When that happens, certain changes can certainly occur in the brain, and can be detected chemically or otherwise, but it is all the result of satanic control and tampering.

This is exactly what I'd expect from someone like you.

This all the tests in the world may show a difference in the brain, but it occurs AFTER the release of one's control to the evil, not before.

Oh, thank GOODNESS we've got an expert here. Tell me, oh great one, why do babies who later grow up to be homosexual immediately look at attractive people of their OWN sex? Do you honestly think you can change your sexual orientation? That's insane. I would never sleep with another guy.. not for any amount of money in the world. Why? Because it's wrong? No... because to me, it's disgusting and I would be haunted for the rest of my life. But gay people not only have a right to be with who they want, they're born that way, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not who you love, it's how.

homosexuality is a sin, one that God abhors, and one that He says will cause eternal separation from His kingdom.

So is being born a bastard (out of wedlock)- or if anyone on your parent's side has been- for the last 10 generations. Good luck... better start tracing your heritage now

Oh, by the way...

Edited Mocking***********

You were saying..?

Tsk, tsk, don't you even read this book you put so much stock in?

God is not cruel. He would never create a person for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.

I form the light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that last thing you said..?

(i put the plural in parenthesis because a rape victim or incest victim is generally not a willing participant.)

Rape victims are never willing participants.. and "incest victim" implies victimization, implying rape, which again, isn't what they want. Care to reword what you've just said?

Which commandment does homosexuality break? Why would it matter anyway?

It has nothing to do with God.. it's personal. They don't like it. That's why Christians are so divided on it. I was thirteen before I finally accepted that I had no reasonable argument against homosexuality, something I'd known all along, but didn't want to think about, because it made me uncomfortable (well, gay men... lesbians are another story.. *cough*).

The point is that homosexuality, if one believes it is a sin, is no different than any other sin that man commits.

An excellent point, and one I've tried to make, but they won't listen. Also, the passages in the bible are ambiguous at best, and have been translated out of a language anyway. Two, actually. Most likely mistranslated.

what does that matter? nothing to those who don't care i suppose. but it matters greatly to those who desire to know God, serve God, and live eternally with God.

God isn't cruel, but he made us so we could serve him.... by fulfilling laws he made specifically for us. He created a problem, then made us solve it ourselves. We serve him by serving him. Isn't that circular? And if you get into heaven, what's your purpose? What happens if you sin there?

I'm not a bigot, i don't hate homosexuals, but i do hurt for their lack of a relationship with their creator.

What about asexuals? I know a couple of those. And yes, you are a bigot of sorts, though perhaps not the hateful kind. You've told us that God thinks it's a sin.. but why? What possible reason could there be? Support it from scripture now. As in, actual reasons.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Matthitjah