PLEASE HELP: Is church for everyone?

[ted]

It's not a subculture simply because it is the Truth.

True. It's not a subculture because of the Truth. It's a subculture because it has become ingrown, developed a language of its own, separated itself from "the world," as if it were not a part of "the world." Failed to recognize that Jesus said "be IN the world" because it chooses only to look at the other side of what Jesus said, "but not OF the world." Because of our own cowardice and lack of faith, we act like the world is some evil to be feared because it is going to overcome us, instead of acting as if we're some force of love to be feared by evil because we are going to overcome the world, just as Jesus overcame the world. Not conquered it, beat it, bested it ... but, rather, blessed it. We act like we're not a part of it, with an "us and them" attitude, as if we're not part of the "them." As if we're not all in this together. And THAT'S how the Church has become a subcultured. Insulation.

I pray that He richly blesses you David.

Thank you. I'll gladly accept that.

--David

Who's "we"?

I mean, who exactly are you talking about here?

t.

[Guest Epiphany]

FC, I'm still not clear. Just call me dense. Did they ask you to leave or just not to be on the WT? Anyhoo, if it's not where God wants you, it doesn't matter anyway. God knows what church He wants you in. Ask Him. Then start visiting churches. He'll lead you to the right one. Who knows? Maybe that whole awful incident happened because God has something better for you in mind. Don't commit suicide. I know you love your wife and babies. Who's going to look after them if you're gone? They need you. God needs you here too, otherwise, He would've took you already. He still has people He wants you to minister to, to reach for Him. He loves you so so much. He's not going to leave you floundering around on your own. The Bible says that. It also says He'll direct your paths. I'll be praying for you, FC. I love you, brother. Just wish you'd change your name.

I was strongly "shown the door" and not welcomed back.

HEY! I hope and pray you can read this since I don't see you on here anymore but please please don't do anything so horrible as suicide. Grief WILL always pass...even when we can't see any positive future...it IS THERE. THAT is what FAITH in God's love IS. Just trust in God's plan for your life...that is what faith is. It's not faith in your own power...it's faith in God's power and God's plan for your life. He loves you. God absolutely loves you. Going to a physical church has absolutely NOTHING to do with FAITH. I also went through a period of DEEP despair and sorrow after God gave me some very deep truths about life and the true nature of the love of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for all of us. (That is what the Bible says will happen..."much knowledge brings much sorrow".) I was also kicked out of the physical church in an extremely painful spiritual way by a "pharasaical" pastor of sorts. It was actually quite scary when he preached that I was a Wolf in the church in a sermon that was broadcast on our town's local television station simply because I believe very deeply in the love of Christ, this pastor called me evil and all sorts of things. This pharasaical preacher didn't call me by name but I have written proof in some emails that he was talking about me so my fears were solidly confirmed. My guess is that you must have done or said something too close to some kind of TRUTH or to the TRUE nature of Christ and it must have offended people who are not accepting of truth or do not measure up to the same standard of REAL truth as you might have attained and shown to those people. That is what the Bible says will happen. Christ is Truth. People are often deeply offended by REAL TRUTH and by the true nature of Jesus Christ which is indeed love. This might take some pondering and asking God to help you understand. Feel free to talk more to me if this hits any buttons because I've felt tremendous pain over this type of thing. My friends of many many years have all been turned against me spiritually because of the influence of this pharasaical pastor. The Bible also says you WILL be kicked out of the synagogue. There are passages that say you will be "flogged in their synagogues" (spiritually speaking) and "kicked out of their synagogues". I can look them up for you tomorrow if you want. But praying to God will give you answers if you trust what HE and the Holy Scriptures tells you and NOT what CHURCH DOCTRINES (traditions of men) have taught you. I encourage you to read the Bible and pray for God to shed new light on the passages for you. There is much deeper meaning in that book than most people believe.

PS what you are going through sounds like "spiritual warfare"...being too close to any kind of truth in life (especially Jesus Christ) brings out the wicked spirits in other's whose hearts are hardened

In Christ,

God bless you

[Floatingaxe]

PS what you are going through sounds like "spiritual warfare"...being too close to any kind of truth in life (especially Jesus Christ) brings out the wicked spirits in other's whose hearts are hardened

Could easily also be someone who was disciplined righteously and griping about it.

[David H.]

PS what you are going through sounds like "spiritual warfare"...being too close to any kind of truth in life (especially Jesus Christ) brings out the wicked spirits in other's whose hearts are hardened

Could easily also be someone who was disciplined righteously and griping about it.

It definitely could. It could also easily be someone who was disciplined unrighteously. Both happen.

[Floatingaxe]

Duh... I see an unhappy person who was disciplined and was complaining about it. We only got one side.

[David H.]

Duh... I see an unhappy person who was disciplined and was complaining about it. We only got one side.

That's what you've seen with every person on this topic who has complained about their experience with a church. When someone sees the same thing no matter who makes the comment, then I think they see what they want to see.

[Floatingaxe]

David---

That is absolutely untrue. There are many, many cities and towns in North America which are spiritual deserts. It is a fallacy and a fantasy to think that there are good churches everywhere. There just aren't. I am sure you would agree.

It behooves a Christian to find one and locate himself near it. It is more important to have a great church body than it is to have a great job! Sacrificing one's dreams for material comfort is well worth finding a great church home. It has eternal benefits.

Blessings!

[David H.]

David---

That is absolutely untrue. There are many, many cities and towns in North America which are spiritual deserts. It is a fallacy and a fantasy to think that there are good churches everywhere. There just aren't. I am sure you would agree.

It behooves a Christian to find one and locate himself near it. It is more important to have a great church body than it is to have a great job! Sacrificing one's dreams for material comfort is well worth finding a great church home. It has eternal benefits.

Blessings!

Maybe I was mistaking you for someone else on this topic, who seemed critical of anyone who expressed a bad experience with a church and who had left because of that experience. I agree that finding a good church home is a good thing. Of course, I don't agree that a good church is the be-all and end-all of life for which one should sacrifice even his career. There is far too much legalism and judgment about the spirituality of others based on their church attendance.

[billie]

The Bible says don't forsake the gathering together of yourselves. I suppose you could slide by on that one meeting with one other person, but why would you want to just do what's necessary? Wouldn't you want to seek God on where He wants you?

[David H.]

The Bible says don't forsake the gathering together of yourselves. I suppose you could slide by on that one meeting with one other person, but why would you want to just do what's necessary?

Yes, the Bible does say that, but the law stopped with the giving of the Torah. So, this is Paul's exhortation. It's not a new commandment; it's his strong encouragement. That means it's not law and leaves no room for legalism regarding church attendance or for thinking someone is backsliding if he's not attending. He may be backsliding; he may not. I've seen plenty of churches try to control their members in a cult-like fashion by turning Paul's exhortation into a commandment and declaring someone to be in sin if they break fellowship. It's a way to keep the flock in the fold, even when the fold is so full of manuer the flock wants to hop out.

Wouldn't you want to seek God on where He wants you?

Surely so. And when He tells me where He wants me, I will surely go.

--David

Suffering for the Lord in Hawaii