Matthitjah Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.26 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 Grace to you, It is my opinion at this point that what Graham may have meant to say is that it is wrong for us to pre-judge people as to who will get saved and who will not. We cannot say which Muslims will or will not receive the Gospel, and thus it is not up to us to say who will or will not be in Heaven. Based upon the preponderance of sermons and books that Dr. Graham has written, it is not likely that he meant to be understood as saying that Muslims can get to heaven through Islam, or that Buddhists can get to heaven through Buddha. It would appear that he is simply striving for a more diplomatic position that allows for the grace of God to do its work. We have no idea of those living today who will or will not accept Christ. We do not even know if everyone who currently claims Christ are truly born again, and who are just playing "church." I think that this is a better representation of Graham's words. Exactly. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 Billy Graham was recently quoted in a Newsweek article saying the following: When asked whether he believes heaven will be closed to good Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, though, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have." Such an ecumenical spirit may upset some Christian hard-liners, but in Graham's view, only God knows who is going to be saved: "As an evangelist for more than six decades, Mr. Graham has faithfully proclaimed the Bible's Gospel message that Jesus is the only way to Heaven," says Graham spokesman A. Larry Ross. "However, salvation is the work of Almighty God, and only he knows what is in each human heart." Do you agree with this? I would think that many here on Worthyboards would disagree with the part about who will be in heaven. I have seen many posts in which people are quite confident in saying who will be in heaven or hell. If the statement is accurate, it is weak, politically correct and compromises the gospel. I think it is a dangerous statement in that it seems to offer the possibility of a way to Heaven apart from Christ regardless of Graham's intent. While only God knows who will be saved, the fact remains that only those with faith in Christ can be saved. Also, if Graham is making such statements based on illness or senility then his handlers should limit his public comments. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sounds more like the unconditional election doctrine with Calvinism. It does not appear that Graham is saying that there are people saved outside of Christ. That has yet to be established from his words thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 Robert Schuller: "Tell me, what do you think of the future of Christianity?" Billy Graham: "I think everybody who knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ...God's purpose is to call out a people for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, Buddhist world, the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus...and I think they are saved, and that they are going to be in heaven with us." Robert Schuller: "What I hear you saying is that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life even if they've been born into darkness and never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?" Billy Graham: "Yes it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world...that have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God." "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." ~ Jesus Christ Well, Paul tells us in Romans that all are born with a knowledge that there is a God but that belief in God has no value in terms of salvation. Only the gospel saves and those who have not heard and believed it cannot be saved or at least that is what the Bible teaches. If Graham truly believes people can be saved apart from faith in Christ, what was the point of his years of preaching? sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sounds more like the unconditional election doctrine with Calvinism. It does not appear that Graham is saying that there are people saved outside of Christ. That has yet to be established from his words thus far. What a misinformed comment. Calvin did not believe anyone could be saved apart from faith in Christ. Where do you get this stuff? sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sounds more like the unconditional election doctrine with Calvinism. It does not appear that Graham is saying that there are people saved outside of Christ. That has yet to be established from his words thus far. What a misinformed comment. Calvin did not believe anyone could be saved apart from faith in Christ. Where do you get this stuff? sw Maybe you need to learn how to read. I did not say that Calvin taught that. But it appears that Graham may have a calvinist bent in those remarks. I said it does not appear that Graham is saying that anyone can be saved outside of Christ. Again, it appears to hearken back to the Predestination doctrine that God has pre-selected who will and will not saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointer Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 636 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Aug 19 2006, 07:42 AM) As to the OP, I have listened to many of Billy Graham's sermons Is the OP about Billy Graham? I did not think so. Yes, the OP is about Billy Graham. It is not for you to say. But who cares? 'Christians' are not to be expected to behave in an honorable manner, and will do whatever they like, quite irrespective of what Christ and conscience would have them do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sounds more like the unconditional election doctrine with Calvinism. It does not appear that Graham is saying that there are people saved outside of Christ. That has yet to be established from his words thus far. What a misinformed comment. Calvin did not believe anyone could be saved apart from faith in Christ. Where do you get this stuff? sw Maybe you need to learn how to read. I did not say that Calvin taught that. But it appears that Graham may have a calvinist bent in those remarks. I said it does not appear that Graham is saying that anyone can be saved outside of Christ. Again, it appears to hearken back to the Predestination doctrine that God has pre-selected who will and will not saved. You're the one who needs to either learn reading or comprehension skills. Graham's comments do not sound like the doctrine of unconditional election in the least and that's what you said. Read your own quote again. You should not venture into areas that you know nothing about. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sounds more like the unconditional election doctrine with Calvinism. It does not appear that Graham is saying that there are people saved outside of Christ. That has yet to be established from his words thus far. What a misinformed comment. Calvin did not believe anyone could be saved apart from faith in Christ. Where do you get this stuff? sw Maybe you need to learn how to read. I did not say that Calvin taught that. But it appears that Graham may have a calvinist bent in those remarks. I said it does not appear that Graham is saying that anyone can be saved outside of Christ. Again, it appears to hearken back to the Predestination doctrine that God has pre-selected who will and will not saved. You're the one who needs to either learn reading or comprehension skills. Graham's comments do not sound like the doctrine of unconditional election in the least and that's what you said. Read your own quote again. You should not venture into areas that you know nothing about. sw The whole time you've been here, I've seen nothing but a snarly attitude from you. You seem to be long on attitude and short on knowledge yourself at times, so I suggest you might take your own advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 19, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2006 Sounds more like the unconditional election doctrine with Calvinism. It does not appear that Graham is saying that there are people saved outside of Christ. That has yet to be established from his words thus far. What a misinformed comment. Calvin did not believe anyone could be saved apart from faith in Christ. Where do you get this stuff? sw Maybe you need to learn how to read. I did not say that Calvin taught that. But it appears that Graham may have a calvinist bent in those remarks. I said it does not appear that Graham is saying that anyone can be saved outside of Christ. Again, it appears to hearken back to the Predestination doctrine that God has pre-selected who will and will not saved. You're the one who needs to either learn reading or comprehension skills. Graham's comments do not sound like the doctrine of unconditional election in the least and that's what you said. Read your own quote again. You should not venture into areas that you know nothing about. sw The whole time you've been here, I've seen nothing but a snarly attitude from you. You seem to be long on attitude and short on knowledge yourself at times, so I suggest you might take your own advice. Perhaps you should read the other poster's smart comment and say the same thing. Are you so blind you do not see his "snarly attitude"? My comment was certainly no worse than his. And shiloh's comment is a sure indication that he knows nothing about Calvinistic doctrine. Just trying to be helpful. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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