Ask the nonbeliever

[billie]

Lypse, do you have kids?

[MrsSealedEternal]

No, although it is something to ponder.

That argument works both ways, right? But it appears we both already know we don't know everything. The difference is in what we do and do not know.

I just hypothetically wondered if you might be the definitive authority on all matters by fact of the virtue that you knew everything there is to know, because if you did, I would of had a whole lot of questions for you.

Do you think that if there really is a God, He could know everything there is to know?

um, i guess so

Good guess...

Have you ever read the entire Holy Bible?

[wouldhe]

What evidence do you have for your God?? You only have faith that your God exists. If you had any evidence, you wouldn't need faith now would you.

Frankly, I have some evidence. Take a look at the New York's Library (I forgot it's name) and there is more evidence proving Jesus and God exist than that Napoleon Bonaparte did.

[lypse]

Lypse, do you have kids?

No, not at the moment

[lypse]

No, although it is something to ponder.

That argument works both ways, right? But it appears we both already know we don't know everything. The difference is in what we do and do not know.

I just hypothetically wondered if you might be the definitive authority on all matters by fact of the virtue that you knew everything there is to know, because if you did, I would of had a whole lot of questions for you.

Do you think that if there really is a God, He could know everything there is to know?

um, i guess so

Good guess...

Have you ever read the entire Holy Bible?

I have read the entire Bible and I still read the Bible at least every other day. It's to easy to say "I don't believe in God" without having read the Bible. I also read the Qu'ran and I've just started going through the Torah.

Edited September 3, 2006 by lypse

[lypse]

So, the only time you actually attempt to make a point, or address one of you so-called issues, you dont' want to talk about it? What contradictions? What's wrong with the creation? the flood? Job? What is your greivance?

It seems to me that you're trying to set me up for a debate, and it's not happening. The Bible is a sensative issue and to address what I find wrong with it is going to upset people. I'm pretty sure you have heard the contradictions and errors, so I rather save the frustration and time of pointing them out.

In nature there is order and obvious design. From the structured, ordered language of DNA, to the laws that govern the universe, to day and night, etc. As I've said before, man-made pottery is immediately identified by archeologists as being just that: man-made. Yet atheists can't see that a creature designed as wonderfully as man must of necessity be made by an benevolent, creator God.

The problem with your argument is that you are assuming that it was your God who did the designing, when you have no proof that it was Him. I've seen a pot being made, so if I see a pot buried with other artifacts I have no reason to doubt that man made that pot. I've never seen a human being 'designed' so why should I assume that 'Goddidit'. When I look at nature, nothing tells me it was 'obviously' designed.

On top of that, and more importantly, we have eye witness accounts in the form of scripture.

So do many other religions, yet the 'eye witness accounts' are only found in their Holy text and no outside sources

People are still looking for atlantis, and have still never confirmed finding it. But we can go to the places in the Bible, and know they are real. And yet educators consider Plato and Homer great philosophers and historians, etc, and none of their garbage has ever yet to be verified, but christians are considered idiots by the atheist camp, even though our text's settings can be found and verified.

If it said in one of Plato or Homer's writings that 'homosexuality is an abomination', no one is going to go around and say "according to Plato, homosexuality is an abomination, so we should not allow gay marriages". However, it says that in the Bible and you have people going around yelling homosexuality is a sin. Also, you can go to places that are mentioned in other Holy texts and know they are real.

Lastly, and most importantly, I have the Spirit of God living inside of me because I sought him with all my heart and he revealed himself to me personally and as well through his written word. God is a very personal God, and not some transcient, unknown force.

You must have heard a different version of the Big Bang theory, because every leading Big Bang supporter admits that the Big Bang contradicts the laws of physics, and says either that, "Before the Big Bang doesn't matter, we can't talk about it," or else says, "The laws of physics were different before the Big Bang," or something along those lines.

The reason the big bang defies laws is because we know that something cannot come from nothing. That is why I am open to the idea that a finite force was able to initially set the universe into motion so that it could expand.

What evidence do you claim to have to suggest that he didn't create it? Where did it come from? if not from God?

I got friends who say their God created life, so that's evidence enough for me to say none of your Gods did.

Have you ever taken God's name in vain? Relevance will apear shortly.

yes, relevance please.

[redeemed098]

Hi Lypse,

I only have one small question for you. I hope you dont mind. It kind of steps on your rules as it is a yes or no answer...

If what you believed was wrong, would you want to know...??

Regards,

Ben.

[billie]

Lypse, do you have kids?

No, not at the moment

That's interesting. I've never met an atheist with kids. Why do you think that is?

Please don't take this as me being cheeky. I've really been wondering to myself about this. I'm hoping you can help me out.

[lypse]

I'm upset most of the time anyway. Lets hear it then...

I told you already, it's not happening, even if your upset most of the time, that doesn't account for the others on this board.

Oh there's proof. For one, no other text accurately describes the modern universe, and addresses the relavant questions of origins. The Quran is full of absurd fables and fairy tales. And every other religion is proven wrong by simple observation. The religions of ancient greece, rome, and egypt, for example, are obviously absured because they first of all do not address the problem of origins, and second make statements about the earth, sun, moon, and stars that are factually wrong. The eastern religions don't really say much of anything. they just want to be "at one" with everything, etc.

You're going to have to show me where it 'accurately' describes the modern universe. I didn't want to say this, but the Bible itself can be proven wrong with simple observation. The Bible is one of the reasons I'm not a Christian anymore, because after reading through it the first time I was like . That's why I continue to read it, just in case I missed something before, or interpreted something the wrong way. I will agree with you on the point that every religion can be proven wrong by simple observation.

I have a question for you though. There are Christian sects that take the Bible literally word for word, and there are other sects that do not. There are even disagreements on how certain events and passages should be interpreted. How could the Bible be credible if its followers cannot agree on one universal way to look at the Bible?

In every one of these cases, they can be refuted by simple observation of falsified historical facts, or inaccurate or false understanding of the earth and the laws of nature. The Bible cannot.

Yes it can.

So at last we see. Your gripe with the Bible isn't really one of fact vs fiction, but is rather one of morality. You don't see anything wrong with homosexuality, so in turn you refuse to believe a book that says its wrong. Well, morality is not relative. Morality is absolute. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. truth is not a lie, and a lie is not the truth.

This is what I was waiting for, particularly from you. I suggest you read what I posted again. What I was saying, was that Plato's work does not affect people, but the Bible does, which is why Christians and other religions are under criticism. If you found out tommorow that Plato or Homer didn't live, it wouldn't take away from 'their' texts, but if you found out that the Bible was false, You'd be affected in a big way.

You say morality is absolute, what if I was poor and stole a loaf of bread to feed my starving family, would that be morally wrong?

A person can sit there all day long and say that a red light is green, but that doesn't make their statement true, it makes them a fool.

....

What evidence do you have for this? Oh yeah, nothing. Its pure non-scientific conjecture. Where did your force come from?

Do I need evidence?? I said I'm open to the idea, I didn't say that its my personal belief. I don't know how the universe came to be, and I'm fine with that.

No, its evidence enough to say that at least one person is wrong if two contradict one another.

Or its evidence enough to say that no more than one God can be the true God.

It is not evidence enough to say that no God exists.

So now I have to pick a God. I'll pass.

Why did you do that? Since you don't believe he exists?

It's become more of a slang thing if anything, if I say 'oh my G-d' it will probably be because I see something amazing or whatever, and if I say 'I swear to G-d', that's usually to emphasize that I'm really telling the truth.

[John Lennon]

If anyone has any questions they'd like to ask, feel free to ask away and I'll do my best to offer a clear response. All that I ask is, try not to ask yes or no questions, do not ask more the three questions per post and be polite. I don't intend to debate anyone, here I prefer we discuss and learn from eachother.

Let's get started, any questions?

I'd like to know why Christians are so quick to label one a nonbeliever. Religions are not absolute in the world! There are things known and unknown. We are free to believe or not, and freedom is more powerful than religion.