Imagine

[artsylady]

Hi John Lennon:

The words of the song are very nice but they stop right there in this world. This place earth is sickened with sin and the devil has a foothold.

It was Jesus who claimed that those who reject him will face hell. We are just His followers and repeating his words.

And here's the biggest difference between the Muslim and Christian extremists. The Muslim extremists are following what their 'holy books' tell them to do. The Christian extremists are not. Mohammed commanded his followers to kill for their faith. Jesus commanded followers to die for their faith.

There are many Christian extremists out there but they don't make any headlines. They give up their homes and security and go and live in the poverty in the jungles of Africa or the policially unstable environments where they risk imprisonment or death. Christians die all the time giving up their lives to peacfully spread the good news of Jesus and help people, teach children, provide medical aid and teach valuable skills and education for viritually no pay. THAT is a good example of Christian extremism. If you've read the new testament, I'm sure you'll agree.

There comes a time when you have to decide, who was Jesus? Professor Simon Greenleaf, Royale Professor of Evidence at Harvard was posed that question by a student once and that question changed his life. He became a Christian, based on evidence. Testimony of the Evangelists is something that might interest you.

So was Jesus the son of God or was he a liar and a lunatic? If he wasn't who he said he was, he died to con the whole world into a beleif system that is wrong. And so did his apostles. And so did thousands of other Christians at the time. Quite the conspiracy theory. Twelve bad men and invented a non existant religion of peace, love, forgiveness and TRUTH, and then willingly died for this belief rather than renouncing it. Never mind the thousands of other men and women who also died during the time. If you think about it, there were MANY religions around at the time, but this ONE caused a huge stir and a lot of bloodshed. But the bloodshed was not caused BY the believers, but to the believers. It shouldn't have lasted. It started small in one area and it was made illegal with the penalty of death and is now the world's number 1 religion.

If there was a real devil, and there was a real religion would he attack the most? Think about it. Which ones were most persecuted? Jews and Christians. It's been said that the survival of the Jews is a 'miracle'. I would also say the survival of Christianity is a miracle as well.

[artsylady]

If you want to "imagine" what the world would be like without religion then look to those places who's governments did away with religion such as the Former USSR and China.

Good point.

[artsylady]

Anyway, once you accept the philosophy that the answers to life are beyond our reason, then every "religion" or attempt to find an optimistic hope becomes merely a "dream" or a vision and it really doesn't matter which "religion" you pursue. The sad thing is, you'll be hard pressed to live this consistently because your life experience will not reflect your beliefs..which will leave you unfulfilled, holding onto nothing but an imaginary utopia. As far as I know, there is no other philosophy or religion that explains and defines the human problems while also offering solutions that fit within our human experience the way Christianity does. Contrary to what some say, Christianity does not require us to deny our reason or abandon rationality in order to "leap into faith" that is not explainable. I think in order to have a more productive discussion, we would need to address your worldview. Would you care to define it?

True. I was watching a documentary on the hippie movement where it was explained that after a while, all groups of hippies, with the exception of the Jesus Freaks, decided after awhile they'd had enough. They moved from their idealic peaceful communes and joined the real world because it really didn't offer what they had beleived they'd wanted.

[artsylady]

Ted: Your personal story on JL was good. It's amazing the depth that he affected people. It made me wonder if John Lennon may have been close to finding Christ when he was shot? Speaking of imagine, imagine what would have happened had this been the case? The devil wouldn't want that to happen, that's for sure.

[ted]

Ted: Your personal story on JL was good. It's amazing the depth that he affected people. It made me wonder if John Lennon may have been close to finding Christ when he was shot? Speaking of imagine, imagine what would have happened had this been the case? The devil wouldn't want that to happen, that's for sure.

I'm not sure if he was close to finding Christ or not, but he certainly had found a bit of peace in his life of turmoil in the last 5 years of his life.

In 1975, his second son, Sean, was born, and the real John Lennon dropped out of public life to dedicate his life to raising him. He basically turned into a stay at home dad and gave himself to raising his boy. He missed his chance, due to his career, of raising Julian, and determined to not do the same with Sean.

All in all, I think he had the chance for reflection during this time, as well. Once Sean was five and heading for school, John then decided it was time to get back into his music and public life. You can see a recharged battery evident from the songs on his first album in over 5 years, Double Fantasy. He had just come home from a vacation (Bermuda, I think it was) and was inspired to get back into the music.

None of the songs on that album reflect the pain, anger, or sadness of the past. Most of them dealt with the love he had for his son and wife, and the lessons learned from his time away, with a nod to a positive future.

I couldn't see any light as far as Jesus goes, however. Even though, I was not thinking of Jesus at the time, either.

If he ever professed Christ before he died, I haven't heard of it.

t.

[John Lennon]

Ted: Your personal story on JL was good. It's amazing the depth that he affected people. It made me wonder if John Lennon may have been close to finding Christ when he was shot? Speaking of imagine, imagine what would have happened had this been the case? The devil wouldn't want that to happen, that's for sure.

Edited September 9, 2006 by John Lennon

[John Lennon]

I really hope that you do read it ( Tortured For Christ) John i am very interested to know what you think after you have read it.

Well, alright. Would I find that book at a Christian book store?

[John Lennon]

That hilarious website "Demonizing" John Lennon was the funniest thing I ever saw!!! I only have one response to it.....The goat is just a symbol of the "devil" like so many others..How do you connect that to an album cover with Paul McCartney? You were ripping into John, Right? Leave Paul McCartney alone!!!!

This forum isn't about John Lennon and Paul McCartney. And did I say again that your use of his name is disrespectful? You seem to be upset. And about what? Something someone said about Paul McCartney? There are message boards for that and this isn't one of them.

Fair enough..I was indeed defending John Lennon being demonized. I mean, that is ridiculous that's all. This is just people debating something they don't agree on. To state that John Lennon..for all his faults,equates to Satan is a bit extreme. Don't you agree?

Firstly, you have not once addressed the use of his name being disrespectful. I agree only that JL had a gift for music and in the music industry will go down as a legend as well as the rest of the Beatles. I don't judge the living or respectfully the dead so in a way, yes I can agree with you that we have some very enthusiastic Christians. Perhaps it was extreme without any back up but let's not let this thread turn in to whether or not JL was a satanist. I don't really care. He is dead. I'm alive, you are alive, why waste your energy in getting angry on a theory? Now, are you idolizing him by using his name or is it some kind of joke? I'm seriously curious and wish you would address that question. I also need to add that his love for yoko was amazing kind of love as if they truly belonged together. I always admired that about the couple.

spreading the love!

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace

If you go to that website and see what I'm describing you would understand why I fired back in response to it. It's ridiculous! As Lypse pointed out clearly-many Christians feel a deep conviction about their faith and defend it with a vengeance! They will go to a lot of trouble to make their point..that website is an example! Look, these veiwpoints turn into a heated exchange without anybody having to give it a shove.

[John Lennon]

Also, it's words being exchanged-not violence! And by the way..if the majority of members here wish that I change the username, I will. Some of the Christian usernames are kind of odd..but it's their thing! I joined a CHRISTIAN discussion forum and I will abide by it's rules. This outer-court forum is an excellent idea, whoever thought of it has really got something started here. Respectfully-JL.

[Arthur Durnan]

Bottom line: John Lennon is long gone. Jesus Christ remaineth forever. AMEN & AMEN!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com