hell and mercy

[Pax]

Man the Bible doesn't come right out and say "if you kill yourself you have committed a mortal sin and will go straight to hell." However the Bible says "Thou shall not Kill." And the Bible also talks of two types of sin, when you put the two together a person who commits suicide had a chance of committing a mortal sin and is no long here to repent, which could be very bad for that person. However this isn't black and white.

If it's not black and white, how can you call it a mortal sin?

Look at your list...#2... if a person doesn't know it's a sin then it isn't a sin...correct?

#3 does not apply if the person doesn't know it's a sin....correct?

I repectfully disagree, but will leave it at that.....God bless you Man.

You are correct, a person has to know what they are doing is a sin. An example of this is a 12 year old boy that commits a crime. Does he really know what he did? Most states say no, and that child is in juvinile hall until the age of 18 or 19 then set free. Often without a criminal record. I also posted that certain situations lower a persons culpability. This means if a person is under extreme stress of any kind, this can lower culpability. God is the ultimate judge of this not us. If a person commits suicide I am not going to say, hey he's in hell. I don't know what was going on in his life or in his head.

Then how can you say that suicide is a mortal sin?

If you're looking for scripture to back up your claim's...I don't think there are any.

I said it has the potential to be a mortal sin.

You know what else has the potential of being a mortal sin?

Making stuff up and passing it off as the Truth. When we preach the word and what we preach cannot be verified through the Word, it is not the Truth. This is a very dangerous practice. There are penalties for teaching manmade doctrines.

We can let this go for now but I will advise you to study your bible.

[Guest man]

Man the Bible doesn't come right out and say "if you kill yourself you have committed a mortal sin and will go straight to hell." However the Bible says "Thou shall not Kill." And the Bible also talks of two types of sin, when you put the two together a person who commits suicide had a chance of committing a mortal sin and is no long here to repent, which could be very bad for that person. However this isn't black and white.

If it's not black and white, how can you call it a mortal sin?

Look at your list...#2... if a person doesn't know it's a sin then it isn't a sin...correct?

#3 does not apply if the person doesn't know it's a sin....correct?

You are correct, a person has to know what they are doing is a sin. An example of this is a 12 year old boy that commits a crime. Does he really know what he did? Most states say no, and that child is in juvinile hall until the age of 18 or 19 then set free. Often without a criminal record. I also posted that certain situations lower a persons culpability. This means if a person is under extreme stress of any kind, this can lower culpability. God is the ultimate judge of this not us. If a person commits suicide I am not going to say, hey he's in hell. I don't know what was going on in his life or in his head.

Then how can you say that suicide is a mortal sin?

If you're looking for scripture to back up your claim's...I don't think there are any.

I said it has the potential to be a mortal sin.

You know what else has the potential of being a mortal sin?

Making stuff up and passing it off as the Truth. When we preach the word and what we preach cannot be verified through the Word, it is not the Truth. This is a very dangerous practice. There are penalties for teaching manmade doctrines.

We can let this go for now but I will advise you to study your bible.

I respectfully disagree, but will leave it at that. God bless you....Man

[Pax]

Man the Bible doesn't come right out and say "if you kill yourself you have committed a mortal sin and will go straight to hell." However the Bible says "Thou shall not Kill." And the Bible also talks of two types of sin, when you put the two together a person who commits suicide had a chance of committing a mortal sin and is no long here to repent, which could be very bad for that person. However this isn't black and white.

If it's not black and white, how can you call it a mortal sin?

Look at your list...#2... if a person doesn't know it's a sin then it isn't a sin...correct?

#3 does not apply if the person doesn't know it's a sin....correct?

I repectfully disagree, but will leave it at that.....God bless you Man.

You are correct, a person has to know what they are doing is a sin. An example of this is a 12 year old boy that commits a crime. Does he really know what he did? Most states say no, and that child is in juvinile hall until the age of 18 or 19 then set free. Often without a criminal record. I also posted that certain situations lower a persons culpability. This means if a person is under extreme stress of any kind, this can lower culpability. God is the ultimate judge of this not us. If a person commits suicide I am not going to say, hey he's in hell. I don't know what was going on in his life or in his head.

Then how can you say that suicide is a mortal sin?

If you're looking for scripture to back up your claim's...I don't think there are any.

I said it has the potential to be a mortal sin.

You know what else has the potential of being a mortal sin?

Making stuff up and passing it off as the Truth. When we preach the word and what we preach cannot be verified through the Word, it is not the Truth. This is a very dangerous practice. There are penalties for teaching manmade doctrines.

We can let this go for now but I will advise you to study your bible.

I repsectfully disagree, but will leave it at that....God Bless you, Man.

[Akabu]

A breaking of ANY commandment of God is a sin. We ALL know what the commandments are. Even secular laws are based on these very same 10 commandments.

Is suicide a sin? YES!!!! there is no doubt of this!

The second commandment is "Thou shall not kill." (Ex 20:13)

Unfortunately there are various translations to the affect of thou shall not murder, or thou shall not take a life. but even so I can find NO PLACE where God says "You cant kill anyone but yourself". If all commandments are written in the context of "You are commanded" and that is followed by "To not take a life" as in "Thou shall not kill" It does not matter WHO you kill, only that you killed and therefore broke a commandment of God.

Given, God will forgive you if you confess your sin and repent of that sin, but how can you expect to have any chance to repent if you have already died. If you are dead, that's it! Game Over!

Can a "Born-again" christian lose their salvation? No. We do know, however, that when you are judged by Jesus all your works will be tested by fire, and that unconfessed sin will reduce your rewards in heaven. (1Corinthians 3:12-15)

I agree with everything you wrote except the salvation part. Of course a person can loose their salvation. There are references in scripture of salvation being a past, present, and future event. Logically speaking how do you expect a person to turn away from sin if they are "saved." What's the point of not sleeping with my boyfriend, I'm "saved." What's the point of going to Church, I'm "saved."

Again I will point to 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet as through fire."

What is the point of going to church? The point of reading the Bible? Because these are the things we are supposed to do to bring us closer to God. These are the "good works" that we will be rewarded for. There are many other things God wants us to do, all of which are designed to 1) bring us closer to Him, and 2) bring others closer to Him.

If it is possible to lose your salvation then does that not say that Christ's death on the cross was not the perfect sacrifice that was needed? Why was Jesus sent to doe on the cross anyway? The practice of an animal sacrifice was so imperfect that it needed to be replaced. An animal, ANY animal is in no way comparable to the sin free being that Christ was on earth. That was the reason that an animal sacrifice was needed so often. It was an inperfect covering of our sins. Jesus, being sin free and perfect was the ultimate covering for the sins of man.

Isaiah 51:6 "Lift up your eyes to the sky, then look to the earth beneath; For the sky will vanish like smoke, and the earth will wear out like a garment, and it's inhabitants will die in like manner, but My salvation shall be forever, and My righteousness shall not wane."

Do I mean that once we are saved we can go about our lives as we want, sinning like the non-believers? No. We are commanded to do His will. More than that, we should want to do all things by the guiding principle of how does God want us to live. If we truly repent, and accept the salvation that Jesus gave us then we should have no problem with living as he wants. If we do not want to live as He wants, then the question is "Did we really accept his gift of salvation?"

What about Mathew 10:22 "He who endures to the end will be saved." Lets see why do we have to wait until the end to be saved.

Edited by Moderator

What about Phil 2:12 "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Boy why would I have to do this, I thought salvation was a one time event.

These are just two examples in the Bible of salvation being more than a one time event.

Sorry it took so long to respond, but I have been having some issues with my computer. Ended up having to replace the motherboard. Such is life...

In reference to Phil 2:12, You must first read the entire chapter, not just a single verse, to get the context of what is being said. We are to endure through the trials of this secular world to reach the treasures laid for us in Heaven. We must work for the Lord to spread the word of God to all and to endure the consequences that this ungodly world will place upon us.

Eph 2:10 tells us that after we are saved we are created unto good works. Meaning that we are to to do the things that God would have us do.

The Bible says we are "Saved by grace, not through works" (Eph 2:8). For God to say I will give you something (grace) but I will also take it away from you is to say that God does not love us with a perfect love. If God does not love us with a perfect love then the entire Bible is a false teaching. I do not believe this is the case.

If we are not saved by works then how is it possible to lose our salvation through works? It is not!

Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

As I see it, if you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and profess that faith by mouth then you are saved. If you lose the saving grace of God's gift then you never had true faith to begin with. Do not put your faith in works. Put your faith in God and His son Jesus Christ. Their love for us all and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for us is all that is needed to be saved. works are as chaff in the wind.