Ask a Catholic

[Smalcald]

Celibacy and Chastity are interesting topics throughout scripture.

For me looking at them realistically and thinking about them spiritually can be a great help.

What I mean is that all Christians at points in their life, sometimes very long periods, will be called to be celibate and practice celibacy. The unmarried Christian, which would include those who are not yet married, those who are widows or widows, those who may never find a person they want to marry, those who have gone through a divorce all of them are called to practice celibacy. There is also celibacy within marriage. Sometimes this will be voluntary, more often it will not be voluntary. If you husband or wife is sick or disabled you are called to practice celibacy if they cannot not have sex. If you husband or wife is impotent, you cannot force them to have sex, you must practice celibacy etc. These are not uncommon things. So we are all going to be called to practice celibacy and the mindset of sexual purity or chastity. Part of the problem we have with divorce I think is this idea that marriage is going to be some sort of sexual nirvana, and that if it is NOT we have a right to look around or leave the marriage. Marriage is for sickness and health, for good and bad, and yes for times of not having sex.

I think it is good to recognize this and to embrace celibacy when we need to and it is good to look at examples from scripture and from life today of those who did this in a healthy way and succeeded.

[Fiosh]

Celibacy and Chastity are interesting topics throughout scripture.

For me looking at them realistically and thinking about them spiritually can be a great help.

What I mean is that all Christians at points in their life, sometimes very long periods, will be called to be celibate and practice celibacy. The unmarried Christian, which would include those who are not yet married, those who are widows or widows, those who may never find a person they want to marry, those who have gone through a divorce all of them are called to practice celibacy. There is also celibacy within marriage. Sometimes this will be voluntary, more often it will not be voluntary. If you husband or wife is sick or disabled you are called to practice celibacy if they cannot not have sex. If you husband or wife is impotent, you cannot force them to have sex, you must practice celibacy etc. These are not uncommon things. So we are all going to be called to practice celibacy and the mindset of sexual purity or chastity. Part of the problem we have with divorce I think is this idea that marriage is going to be some sort of sexual nirvana, and that if it is NOT we have a right to look around or leave the marriage. Marriage is for sickness and health, for good and bad, and yes for times of not having sex.

I think it is good to recognize this and to embrace celibacy when we need to and it is good to look at examples from scripture and from life today of those who did this in a healthy way and succeeded.

Amen, smalcald. Truly wise words.

[Pax]

Celibacy and Chastity are interesting topics throughout scripture.

For me looking at them realistically and thinking about them spiritually can be a great help.

What I mean is that all Christians at points in their life, sometimes very long periods, will be called to be celibate and practice celibacy. The unmarried Christian, which would include those who are not yet married, those who are widows or widows, those who may never find a person they want to marry, those who have gone through a divorce all of them are called to practice celibacy. There is also celibacy within marriage. Sometimes this will be voluntary, more often it will not be voluntary. If you husband or wife is sick or disabled you are called to practice celibacy if they cannot not have sex. If you husband or wife is impotent, you cannot force them to have sex, you must practice celibacy etc. These are not uncommon things. So we are all going to be called to practice celibacy and the mindset of sexual purity or chastity. Part of the problem we have with divorce I think is this idea that marriage is going to be some sort of sexual nirvana, and that if it is NOT we have a right to look around or leave the marriage. Marriage is for sickness and health, for good and bad, and yes for times of not having sex.

I think it is good to recognize this and to embrace celibacy when we need to and it is good to look at examples from scripture and from life today of those who did this in a healthy way and succeeded.

[vox]

This morning I was listening to Dr. Tony Evans, on the radio, preach on I Cor 7. It brought to mind a comment that someone made on this thread a while back. It was something to the effect that if Mary and Joseph did not consumate their marriage it would be sin.

5

Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

6

This I say by way of concession, however, not as a command.

I looked closely at I Cor 7: 1-7. And, it does indeed say that a man and woman can "deprive each other", but only by "mutual consent"; but should then "return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control. "

The Bible tells us that Joseph was a "holy man". It also tells us that Mary was "full of grace". Was Paul a better man than Joseph in terms of self-control? Was Mary less blest by God in her ability to sacrifice human desire for holiness?

If you look at what Paul says in context, there are several critical issues you must consider:

1. Paul is speaking to the Corinthians who were noted for their widespread immorality. Paul is responding to their questions concerning the practice of asceticism---a practice that they were distorting. Paul explains that celibacy is a special gift and not for everyone. He points out to them that they are overestimating their own ability to abide by that principle and are falling into immorality because of it.

2. Paul clearly states "It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman,"

and

5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

6

This I say by way of concession, however, not as a command.

7

Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am, but each has a particular gift from God,

It is obvious that Paul is implying that if a man or woman have the gift of celibacy, it is a permissible to refrain from coming together.

3. Paul wishes that everyone could be as he is, and not engage in relations. But he recognizes that, in reality, this is not the case.

***********************

It is not a sin for a husband and wife to refrain from relations by mutual consent for the glory of God.

It is a good thing.

Peace,

Fiosh

Great explanation.

[vox]

...and furthermore, the Bride of Christ is NOT an institution but rather the Body of Believers, followers of the Way. When the Lord returns for His Bride, he is coming for all those who confess Him as Lord & Savior.

The Church is the Bride of Christ which consists of the body of believers. An institution as referred above is a much larger groups of Churches thus a much larger and organized body of believers. This is formed largely out of necessity and convenience, so as to lead, to teach the Way as you put it.

Apart from the RCC, a great many Protestant denominations also form institutions. In some way Worthy Board is similar to an institution though a virtual one, it also has purpose and direction including rule and regulations.

In fact our lives are governed by rules and regulation many of these are institutionalized out of necessity and convenience. Otherwise chaos will reign.

If we love Christ then we must also love His Church - His body of believers ie His institution. This is the single most important command He gave us. That is to love God with all our heart, with our soul and to love one another.

[Floatingaxe]

...and furthermore, the Bride of Christ is NOT an institution but rather the Body of Believers, followers of the Way. When the Lord returns for His Bride, he is coming for all those who confess Him as Lord & Savior.

The Church is the Bride of Christ which consists of the body of believers. An institution as referred above is a much larger groups of Churches thus a much larger and organized body of believers. This is formed largely out of necessity and convenience, so as to lead, to teach the Way as you put it.

Apart from the RCC, a great many Protestant denominations also form institutions. In some way Worthy Board is similar to an institution though a virtual one, it also has purpose and direction including rule and regulations.

In fact our lives are governed by rules and regulation many of these are institutionalized out of necessity and convenience. Otherwise chaos will reign.

If we love Christ then we must also love His Church - His body of believers ie His institution. This is the single most important command He gave us. That is to love God with all our heart, with our soul and to love one another.

Wayne B is exactly right. The Church is the Body of amazing, diverse, redeemed followers of Jesus Christ! The governmental, institutional bodies of believers are not what the Word is referring to. Jesus is coming for people, not churches! He is coming for His Bride! His Bride is found among many, many churches, but the Church as a whole, is the Bride.

[billie]

[vox]

Wayne B is exactly right. The Church is the Body of amazing, diverse, redeemed followers of Jesus Christ! The governmental, institutional bodies of believers are not what the Word is referring to. Jesus is coming for people, not churches! He is coming for His Bride! His Bride is found among many, many churches, but the Church as a whole, is the Bride.

Axe, you just want to argue for the sake of it while contradicting yourself. Please read my reply. If you believe His Church consists of body of believers then you must also love His Church, and you must also believe that He is coming for His Church, His bride or His body of believers.

Since you brought up the subject of government. Why did the founding fathers of America find it necessary to draw up the constitutions?

Do you live and abide by the rules and regulations, abide by the law? Bear in mind that even here in WB we must abide by the rules and regulations set out by the Borad.

[Fiosh]

...and furthermore, the Bride of Christ is NOT an institution but rather the Body of Believers, followers of the Way. When the Lord returns for His Bride, he is coming for all those who confess Him as Lord & Savior.

The Church is the Bride of Christ which consists of the body of believers. An institution as referred above is a much larger groups of Churches thus a much larger and organized body of believers. This is formed largely out of necessity and convenience, so as to lead, to teach the Way as you put it.

Apart from the RCC, a great many Protestant denominations also form institutions. In some way Worthy Board is similar to an institution though a virtual one, it also has purpose and direction including rule and regulations.

In fact our lives are governed by rules and regulation many of these are institutionalized out of necessity and convenience. Otherwise chaos will reign.

If we love Christ then we must also love His Church - His body of believers ie His institution. This is the single most important command He gave us. That is to love God with all our heart, with our soul and to love one another.

Wayne B is exactly right. The Church is the Body of amazing, diverse, redeemed followers of Jesus Christ! The governmental, institutional bodies of believers are not what the Word is referring to. Jesus is coming for people, not churches! He is coming for His Bride! His Bride is found among many, many churches, but the Church as a whole, is the Bride.

I don't disagree with you and Wayne, floatingaxe. The "Church" is certainly the followers of Christ and His bride-- made spotless thru His blood. Amen! You and Wayne are as much a part of the "church" in that sense as I am.

The word church has several uses:

1. the liturgical assembly

I Cor 11:18, 14:19, 28, 34, 35

2. the local community

I Cor 1:2; 16:1

3. the whole universal community of believers

I Cor 15:19; Gal 1:13; Phil 3:6

We are all (Christians) members of the "universal community of believers". As you said, we are all one body in Christ. We are joined, though imperfectly, to Him and to each other.

And yet, from the very beginning, there was order and succession in the Church. The Apostles anointed those who were called to succeed them. It was not a matter of anyone who decided to lead a congregation starting his own church. The faith was passed down in an orderly manner. A unified Church began to grow and develop. Yes, problems also developed within the Church, often serious ones. But evil men do not detract from the holiness of the Church and the deposit of faith entrusted to her.

So, in a way, I do agree with Wayne when he says, "the Bride of Christ is NOT an institution but rather the Body of Believers".

But that Body is not a mass of confusion. It is an organized living and growing "organism". There is order and there is a hierarchical structure----and there has been from the time of the Apostles. In this way, there is assurance that the faith will be taught without error. The faithful have a place to turn to for true interpretation of the word of God.

Jesus prayed "that they may be one". Although we are one in our love for Jesus, and in our hope in Him for salvation, we have a long way to go.

Peace,

Fiosh

[artsylady]

We actually had a Latin Mass at my church until about 30 years ago. It was not all Latin; only certain parts of the liturgy.

Catholics know the words to the "Lord Have Mercy", "Gloria", "Creed", "Holy, Holy, Holy", and "Lamb of God". So we know exactly what we are singing. If there is any doubt, we have Mass books in the pews. And it was one of three services, so people could choose to attend a totally English Mass.

Latin is an awesome language to put to music. Using Latin for certain parts of the liturgy is a way to praise God with beautiful music. If you ever get the chance to hear Latin being sung, you'll understand.

That does sound kinda cool. If that's your special way of praising God, then who am I to argue with that.