Doctrinal Questions

[Guest tiggr]

Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, I would have to first say that in order to gain a better understanding of speaking in tongues that we must first look at more than just one verse but look at sevaral,

Joel 2:28-2928 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.KJV

Mark 16:17

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;KJV

Acts 2:1-4

2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.KJV

Acts 2:15-18

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:KJV

Acts 10:45-46

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,KJV

Acts 19:6

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.KJV

Also read Matthew 3:11, Acts 1:4-5, Acts 2:38-39

Now according to these scriptures we see that speaking in other tongues is a sign that one has been filled with the Holy Ghost.

Now we also see that in Romans 8:26 that there are times when the spirit of God makes intercession for us:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

KJV

Now concerning the "gift" of tongues look at

1 Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:KJV

1 Cor 14:27

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.KJV

1 Cor 14:13-14

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.KJV

We see that the gift of tongues and interpretation is where one person may speak in an unknown tongue and another will give the interpretation of it or it may that one person does both.

[JesusisGod2]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

I dont mean to offend anybody here, But some preach that tongues is a manifestation that one has been baptised in the Holy Spirit and without this manifestation, one is void of the Holy Ghost.

This simply is not true and is a very dangerous teaching, I see it destroy more people than it brings closer to the Lord.

Some of what you say I, of course, disagree with, but I do agree with this statement. In their eagerness and zealousness, some have "pushed" tongues onto people over that of "love". By doing this, they have humiliated some and driven some from the church. It is God who gives this gift and THEN it is recognized by the church. I wish that ALL had this gift because it DOES edify the believing speaker. But all that is required to be "born again" is to believe on the Name of Jesus Christ, to pick up their cross and follow Him, and to perservere (in Him) even when everything seems to be going down the tubes. We can't do this by the will of man, but it MUST be by the Spirit of God.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Hi Dad,

Thanks for responding, I want to go on record of saying that I do believe that tongues are a relevant and active gift of the Holy Spirit.

I believe they are a gift of God, and like all the gifts to be desired by the children of God. Some translations even say to be coveted, and which I do and by Gods grace one day will recieve.

I guess what I was trying to get at is the abuse I see of this gift, and now know why God hasnt manifested tongues in me. If He would have given them to me right away, I would not have learned what I have about this wonderful gift.

Dad you say that you have some disagreements with what I have posted, how so? I respect your opinion and will be the first to say I do not have a complete understanding of the gift, only the abuse I have heard preached over the years, doesnt quite line up with my understanding of scripture.

What God has intended as a wonderful gift for the body, some in the body have used to make others feel like "second rate" Christians.

[Catsmeow]

I wonder whatever happened to the "cleaning" person....

[Guest shadow2b]

-------

Some of what you say I, of course, disagree with, but I do agree with this statement. In their eagerness and zealousness, some have "pushed" tongues onto people over that of "love". By doing this, they have humiliated some and driven some from the church. It is God who gives this gift and THEN it is recognized by the church. I wish that ALL had this gift because it DOES edify the believing speaker. But all that is required to be "born again" is to believe on the Name of Jesus Christ, to pick up their cross and follow Him, and to perservere (in Him) even when everything seems to be going down the tubes. We can't do this by the will of man, but it MUST be by the Spirit of God.

--AHHHhhhhh--YESSSSS--LOOK---UP IN THE SKY--IT'S --IT'S-----YESSS IT'S DAAAAD ERRRRRRNIE------

FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET-- ABLE TO BEND STEEL WITH HIS BARE HANDS------

MORE POWERFUL THAN A LOCOMOTIVE-{in the word of GOD}---

ABLE TO EXPLAIN CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS IN TRUTH---IN POWER--&-IN LOVE FOR THE BRETHREN--

YESSSS ONCE AGAIN DAD ERNIE HAS LEFT THE CONFINES OF THE PHONE--BOOTH---

to "rescue" a brother from his own "stupidity"& "HURTFUL" WORDS --------

YESS it's wonderful to have a BROTHER that cares enough to "SEND THE VERY BEST"-----

SO once again we offer our "thanks" to A "superman" of a brother----

[JesusisGod2]

Hi Tiggr,

And welcome to the boards, we are glad you are here andGod bless you.

I read your response and like your choice of scripture reference.

Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, I would have to first say that in order to gain a better understanding of speaking in tongues that we must first look at more than just one verse but look at sevaral

Joel 2:28-2928 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.KJV

Notice these verses mentioned prophecy but there is no metion of tongues.

Mark 16:17

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;KJV

Some of the older more reliable manuscripts, do not contain these sets of verses.

and it also says they shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick and they will recover.

But I dont see a whole lot of drinking poisoin, or picking up deadly snakes, or even laying hands on people and they are healed (though I believe it is a relevant manifestation of the spirit.

Acts 2:1-4

2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.KJV

Amen

Acts 2:15-18

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:KJV

Again no mention of tongues in the prophecy.

And its interesting to note that most when refering to Pentecost, never mention the miracle in the hearer hearing in their own language. for they were from all over north, south, east, and west and each understood in their own language.

And that they were all Jews Verse 1

Also notice in acts 2:41-47 these have no mention of speaking in tongues. my point being, not all manifest this spiritual gift.

Acts 10:45-46

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,KJV

Acts 19:6

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.KJV

Also read Matthew 3:11, Acts 1:4-5, Acts 2:38-39

Every believer is baptized with the Holy Spirit when they are born again. These above scriptures make a case for this.

acts 1:4-5 Jesus made this statement for He had not yet assended to the Farther.

acts 2:38-39 is fulfilled in 41-47 there is no mention here of tongues.

Now according to these scriptures we see that speaking in other tongues is a sign that one has been filled with the Holy Ghost.

It is one of the signs, but not all will recieve them

Now we also see that in Romans 8:26 that there are times when the spirit of God makes intercession for us:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

KJV

And so does Jesus.

Now concerning the "gift" of tongues look at

1 Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:KJV

1 Cor 14:27

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.KJV

1 Cor 14:13-14

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.KJV

We see that the gift of tongues and interpretation is where one person may speak in an unknown tongue and another will give the interpretation of it or it may that one person does both.

Great verses, but it does not say all speak in tongues, in fact it says the opposite in context with the rest of the verses

I strongly believe they are a manifestation of the Spirit, but not all speak in tongues but all believers are baptized in the Holy Spirit. I do believe we all have the gift, just not the manifestation.

In Jesus

Kevin

.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

In response to your question about what I disagree with you on, I believe it is a minor thing, but I set no boundaries on how, when or what is spoken of when speaking in "tongues". If we pray and we speak in tongues, it would behoove us to gain understanding from the Lord as to its meaning. If we prophecy in church and it comes through a tongue, there must be someone there, if not oneself that can and will give the interpretation and then 2 or 3 must judge the validity of it. Tongues MAY BE in the special language of angels, but it need not necessarily be so.

In one church where I attended, a story was related to me of an incident that occurred there. There was an altar call and one lady was at the altar quietly praying in tongues as the Lord lead. A Chinese lady that was not saved, felt it was necessary to go to the altar too. As she parked herself close to the first lady, she became amazed at what that lady was saying. It was as if the lady was speaking directly to her. After both finished praying, the Chinese lady asked the first lady how it is that she spoke Chinese. She said she didn't, and did not know a lick of Chinese. The Chinese lady was stunned. She went on to tell the first lady that it was not only Chinese, but the language was High Manderin(?), which normally was only spoken by the High Priests in the temples in China. The Chinese lady was convicted and gave her heart to the Lord.

My wife often begins her private prayers in English, but as she is moved by the Spirit, she slips into tongues, and has often sang in tongues. I have heard and others have heard people praying in the spirit and all of a sudden many start singing in tongues as if they were choreographed to do so. When you hear it is like the angels singing.

So I believe that tongues should be spoken with some decorum, and should never be lifted above the other gifts.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[wordsower]

God gives gifts as He wills. He is sovereign and He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Paul rebukes the Corinthians for not getting along. We are brothers and sisters in Christ and I know He is not pleased if we sit and argue about tongues. There is a world of dead souls out there!!!

Personally, tongues are for today. If you do not agree, then fine, we'll discuss it again in Glory.

My reasons for believing in tongues:

1 Cor. 14 Pray about it and God will give you understanding.

v 14 For I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

He goes on to say in v. 19 that in church he would rather speak 5 words with understanding than 10,000 in tongues.

So obviously when you speak in tongues you do not understand it. If it is in church there should be an interpreter, otherwise no more than 2 or 3.

If you never speak in tongues then you are no less a christian than someone who does. If you do, thank God for the gift and be happy!!

But most importantly LOVE :il:

I praise God for the gift and that He finally put me in a church that believes in tongues but is very adherant to scripture in church. I went to a church for a while where everyone spoke in tongues all the time and frankly, I felt it was unscriptural and they were trying to out-do eachother.

Blessings!

[ColleenLovesMischief]

My wife often begins her private prayers in English, but as she is moved by the Spirit, she slips into tongues,

This has also happend to me and I knoe I found it in the NT somewhere that it is a way for your Spirit to pray what really needs to be prayed. I'll have to look for it.

[Guest tiggr]

Hi JeusisGod2

first concerning the following qoute that you made,

But I dont see a whole lot of drinking poisoin, or picking up deadly snakes, or even laying hands on people and they are healed (though I believe it is a relevant manifestation of the spirit.

Paul (not intentionally) picked up a snake and was bitten but yet he lived, as far as drinking poison, nope havent done that, have no need to, but I have seen things greater than that happen, and I have seen someone lay hands on a person and pray for that person and they were healed.

QUOTE

Acts 2:15-18

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:KJV

Again no mention of tongues in the prophecy.

First in Acts 2:15-18 Peter is explaining to the people there why they could hear and understand them speaking to them in their native tongue, it was not that it was a miracle of hearing,but that God had poured out His Spirit upon the disciples and they spoke in other tongues. there were 120 in the upper room on the day of pentecost could it be that those 120 people were speaking in other tongues as God gave the utterance so that the people who were there from other countries could hear the glory of God being preached in their native tongue? 120 people speaking in 120 different languages so that all might hear.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Thank you tiggr I was looking for that verse

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.KJV

I agree not all speak in tongues. Not all teach. All gifts are not for everyone. Unfortionately the UPC (united pentecostal church) believes that you have to speak in tongues to be saved. Pray for a girl that used to be in my youth group. She is in foster care and being housed by a person who attends a UPC church. I was there Sunday night, and she is praying with all of her heart for the gift of tongues. I feel bad for her because I know there is a chance she will not recieve it. I also know these people push hard for you to recieve it. I have seen them keep somone on their knees with hands upraised for over an hour praising the Lord and asking for this gift. They did it to me 11 yrs ago. Please pray for her. :prayer