Jesus-myth or "copycat savior" myth refuted.

[khalou]

They believed that the Satan in Job was one of God's loyal servants. Whoever wrote the story meant in that way. That's all.

And where do you get that idea from??

Intense study of the facts of the matter where I never assume anything, but just go with where the facts take me.

Come on! Even Christian scholars believe this based on the facts. Why do you want to beat me up on something like this?

k

Never met anyone who believed that...never.

And I had never met anyone who believe that sub-atomic entities would act either as a wave or a particle, depending on whether or not they were being observed...never.

But it seems they do.

k

[khalou]

They believed that the Satan in Job was one of God's loyal servants. Whoever wrote the story meant in that way. That's all.

And where do you get that idea from??

Intense study of the facts of the matter where I never assume anything, but just go with where the facts take me.

Come on! Even Christian scholars believe this based on the facts. Why do you want to beat me up on something like this?

k

Never met anyone who believed that...never.

And I had never met anyone who believe that sub-atomic entities would act either as a wave or a particle, depending on whether or not they were being observed...never.

But it seems they do.

k

Apparently, the truth doesn't depend on our social interactions.

k

[khalou]

Grace to you,

QUOTE(Matthitjah @ Oct 14 2006, 07:31 AM)

Grace to you,

Friend Khalou,

QUOTE

You will be the first among this group to lose your faith.

Joh 8:7

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Who is Jesus Christ to you Khalou?

Peace,

Dave

Great question.

First and foremost, Jesus was a person I wish more Christians would listen to. The farther from Jesus Christians get, the more willing they seem to be to cast stones.

So Jesus is a Good person? What if He were a liar?

You haven't really answered the question.

Is He merely a Good Teacher or is He God?

Or is He the greatest liar and charlatan known to mankind?

Can He Truly be both?

Peace,

Dave

If you want to know what I REALLY think, I must ask that no one chastise me for saying it here. After all, you asked- twice!

I think that there were many sects within the Jewish faith at the time of Jesus. I think there were other Rabbis like Jesus at the head of these sects. We know that miracles were pretty normal at the time, and that there were many that could perform them. I truly believe that Jesus was very much Jewish, and held the deepest respect for the Jewish religion. There is lots and lots of evidence that this is true.

I believe that Saul of Tarsus joined the group after the loss of their leader, and changed his name to Paul. I believe that Paul wanted to bring the religion to gentiles, and I don't believe Paul really treated Jesus as a physical person when he started his churches. Paul seemed to be speaking about a Mystery religion like the ones the gentiles were used to. James and Peter's church disagreed with Paul's treatment of Jesus' truths. It sounds a lot like they didn't like the idea that Paul was trying to make it a non-Jewish religion that was quite outside of the traditions of the Torah, which Jesus absolutely upheld.

The people that wrote the Gospels were not Jewish, nor were they eyewitnesses. Even Christian Biblical scholars believe this. Instead, they were re-writing the life of Jesus in order to fit in with this new version of the religion. Of all the gospels, the only ones that were canonized were the ones that went along with this new ideology, and were included in the Bible by the same non-Jews that decided on Dec 25 as the day of His birth, and that Sunday should be the Sabbath. What was that, like in the second century CE?? It's no wonder that the Jews couldn't believe their ears when they heard about Christianity. One of the Ten Commandments, perhaps the easiest one, is to simply remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, yet these people actually changed it!

All of the other gospels that have been found that didn't make it into the cannon, including the documentation of the oral tradition of the sayings of Jesus, are quite Jewish.

Meanwhile, the Gospels actually make mistakes about the Hebrew traditions of Jesus' time, and even geographical mistakes as well.

k

Well, my learned friend, that is all hogwash. There are no mistakes in the Bible---anywhere.

Cannon is spelled , "canon".

Interesting.

If I wanted to point out spelling errors in other people's posts, I don't suppose we'd ever get anywhere, but thank you for reminding me.

But are you insinuating that the Pharisees would have had a problem with some of the disciples not washing their hands before eating during Jesus' time? And, just by the way, the Pharisees? They were not in power. They hated the Roman occupation and would have encouraged a Messianic candidate to the last. It was the Sadducees that were placed in power and had something to lose. Why do the gospels make such bad guys out of the enemies of Rome?

k

[khalou]

Good thing the Episcopal Church isn't the say-so! They are slicing and dicing to suit themselves for some reason. It's all denominational stuff. I don't mean to be overly obdurate here, but why, oh why, do you even care what they think?

Because, my friend, I am wondering about Christianity. It seems that you are the only one in all of Christendom that knows the absolute truth about all things Christan. How fortunate that we met, eh? You seem to have an absolutely exclusive interpretation of Christianity. Man, it must be really cool to be the only one on the planet that knows the truth about things, facts be damned.

How is it that you have managed such a special place in God's heart that no matter what historical facts we might uncover, you know exactly which ones should be ignored, and which ones should be believed?

Wow. I envy you.

I hope the other Christians aren't too put out, and I hope they understand that you, and you alone, can tell them when they're wrong.

k

[Floatingaxe]

I know for a fact that those Spirit-filled believers share my sentiments and my beliefs. I don't worry about that.

You keep up with your snide remarks, khalou--I am blessed beyond measure by them, for it tells me that Truth is invading your territory, and making you uncomfortable. God is working!

As the Holy Spirit lives in me, He tells me what is Truth. I trust Him to do that.

[Guest]

Well she does a great job per my Bible!

So, when she speaks, this little old Christian man puts his ears on and pays attention!

Also, I do think you make up fables about my big Brothers (OT) total lack of understanding of Satan!

Starting in Genesis and rolling through Job and on to the end of the first scriptures, through Malachi, these Saints were taught in The Bible about the evil Satan!

I would not doubt they are a whole bunch smarter then me and even I get the point!

So, when you state they were clueless about the Devil's evilness, I become speechless!

Love, Joe

[Floatingaxe]

Well she does a great job per my Bible!

So, when she speaks, this little old Christian man puts his ears on and pays attention!

Also, I do think you make up fables about my big Brothers (OT) total lack of understanding of Satan!

Starting in Genesis and rolling through Job and on to the end of the first scriptures, through Malachi, these Saints were taught in The Bible about the evil Satan!

I would not doubt they are a whole bunch smarter then me and even I get the point!

So, when you state they were clueless about the Devil's evilness, I become speechless!

Love, Joe

[khalou]

I know for a fact that those Spirit-filled believers share my sentiments and my beliefs. I don't worry about that.

You keep up with your snide remarks, khalou--I am blessed beyond measure by them, for it tells me that Truth is invading your territory, and making you uncomfortable. God is working!

As the Holy Spirit lives in me, He tells me what is Truth. I trust Him to do that.

Dude, get a clue.

Learning is about hearing new things. You have not provided me with one new thing since I met you that I can currently remember.

But, no matter what new thing I produce, you are content to just say that it is wrong because you have axioms that can't be challenged. How does that help me?? If you are really interested in making me uncomfortable, why don't you start by countering what I suggest with something more substantial that "I am right"?

The cannon-canon thing was absolutely on target. How about more of that sort of thing?

k

Edited October 16, 2006 by khalou

[Floatingaxe]

I know for a fact that those Spirit-filled believers share my sentiments and my beliefs. I don't worry about that.

You keep up with your snide remarks, khalou--I am blessed beyond measure by them, for it tells me that Truth is invading your territory, and making you uncomfortable. God is working!

As the Holy Spirit lives in me, He tells me what is Truth. I trust Him to do that.

Dude, get a clue.

Learning is about hearing new things. You have not provided me with one new thing since I met you that I can currently remember.

But, no matter what new thing I produce, you are content to just say that it is wrong because you have axioms that can't be challenged. How does that help me?? If you are really interested in making me uncomfortable, why don't you start by countering what I suggest with something more substantial that "I am right"?

The cannon-canon thing was absolutely on target. How about more of that sort of thing?

k

OK. I am a dudette, to you!

Re: something new? From Ecclesiastes 1...

All the rivers flow into the sea,

but the sea never fills up.

The rivers keep flowing to the same old place,

and then start all over and do it again.

Everything's boring, utterly boring

[khalou]

Well she does a great job per my Bible!

So, when she speaks, this little old Christian man puts his ears on and pays attention!

Also, I do think you make up fables about my big Brothers (OT) total lack of understanding of Satan!

Starting in Genesis and rolling through Job and on to the end of the first scriptures, through Malachi, these Saints were taught in The Bible about the evil Satan!

I would not doubt they are a whole bunch smarter then me and even I get the point!

So, when you state they were clueless about the Devil's evilness, I become speechless!

Love, Joe

She?? I had no idea!

Why are you people giving me such problems on such a slam-dunk point? The ancient Hebrews didn't believe in the ability of any angel to rebel against God- they didn't. Ever! Ever!

How are you going to make any sense to me if you can't even show me why I'm wrong? Why are you even talking to me? I know for a fact that God brought both good and evil, created both the light and the darkness in the camps of the Hebrews. I know this. They know this. If you wish to make a point that makes any sense to me at all, then tell me why they are wrong when they interpret their own sacred text in the way that they do. They are religious, just like you are. I am not. I listen to them, and they make sense. I ask you about it, and you come up with "I never heard of that", and "that can't be", but never tell my why you think so in light of their beliefs.

Try it.

k