Jesus-myth or "copycat savior" myth refuted.

[Floatingaxe]

You know, khalou, after all you have said here about you having known the Lord for 40 years, I just don't believe it. I have know Jesus Christ for 44 years, and I have had a growing relationship, not without trials, but all with Him and His sustaining. When you are truly His, you grow up in Him. When you allow doubt, and bitterness and anger to fester, you tend to become limp and ineffective and even dry up spiritually. You walk in disobedience, and God takes His hand off you.

Why have you not grown? Is it because you have allowed doubt to steal the truth you had? Have you allowed bitterness to poison your sweetness with Jesus? Or did you merely have a mental assent to Christ, mistakenly believing you were a believer?

Anyone who says they were a Christian but aren't now---was never a truly committed believer. They have NEVER tasted of the sweetness of the Lord, for they would NEVER have abandoned Him. Once you know Jesus personally, you cannot deny Him.

It wasn't doubt that led me to believe that Christianity isn't healthy. It was absolute faith in it. Absolute faith in Christianity is not good for human beings mentally, spiritually, or emotionally. The only way it doesn't negatively effect a person is if they have a wishy-washy faith that allows them to be "reasonable" about it and pick and choose what they will take seriously.

I haven't seen any evidence on this board that Faith in Christ isn't what each of you have decided it is according to your own sensibilities. I predict you will all be Christians for the rest of your lives as a result. After all, Christianity is easy when it's on your own terms.

I couldn't just halfway live that life- not if I truly believed it was the truth. Anything less than 100% commitment might as well be called Christianity Lite.

k

100% submission is what it's about. We die to self daily, taking up our Cross and following Jesus! He deserves it all! We are desperate without Him. In so doing, we also have wonderful freedom! Freedom from the pull of sin.

These terms are not ours---they are His! Laying down our own wills, we take up the cause of Christ. What an honour and a blessing. I have eternal life with Him as His promise to me.

I don't understand.

That's what I said. What is your point?

k

Why can't you submit to Christ, khalou? What was your point? "Absolute faith" is detrimental to us, yet wishy-washy faith is good? Very silly notions, indeed.

Not what I said.

I said that if one is a Christian, then there should be absolute faith. Where did I say that wishy-washy faith is actually "good"? It is beneficial to the individual because one gets to pretend that everything they believe is true, no matter how they live, but I couldn't do that. If Christianity is true, then this life is but the wink of an eye. Should I live in a house with two cars and a bank account with thousands of dollars in it and go on vacation to exotic places every year?

I live in Southern California. I've never been to Hawaii, nor even San Francisco. I've never even been to Las Vegas. Why? Because this life is but the wink of an eye and eternity in Heaven is my destination. I once found myself in possession of two cars. I immediately gave one away to a guy that didn't have one. Whenever I found myself with more than I needed, I gave away the excess.

I once had a tyrant for a boss. He was eventually sued and fired for his tyrannical behavior. I never judged him and did exactly as he instructed because God had placed him there. I was rewarded in that, when he was gone, God placed me there. I believed that he was placed there to test us all in order to find out who would be the most faithful leader. The job is much more difficult, but this life is but the wink of an eye.

Yet, I am surrounded by Christians who have two or three cars, go on vacation more than once a year spending thousands of dollars on their own comfort, and for what? Memories and photographs of an earthly paradise? They regularly judge others who are of lesser status than they, and talk about their shrewdness in investments and their possessions.

I'm reminded of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane where the Disciples couldn't even stay awake for the wink of an eye.

I knew that these Christians were saved because they claimed Jesus as their Savior, but wondered about the cognitive dissonance they exhibited in their personal relationship with the world.

k

I see! You looked around you and judged others, instead of looking to Christ. That is a mistake. Our lives are tied to Christ. If He chooses to bless us with prosperity, that is His business. If He chooses otherwise, He does so with our own good in mind. It is none of our business to be casting an envious eye upon our brothers and sisters in Christ. When we do that, our downfall is inevitable.

[Chelsea7]

Yeah right, there is so much evidence of Jesus Christ, not to mention how many prophecies he fufilled, I mean seriously theres too much evidence to doubt. It's just ignorent people trying to prove wrong what is perfect.

[redeemed098]

I really don't feel it's money promotion that is at the root!

I simply feel that the atheist mind drives them to search

out others that have similar thoughts. The more people

they get to agree with them the more they feel they must

be right. And if they can cause a Christian to stumble then

the atheist feels triumphant.

Like someone has stated this has been going on and will

continue to go on till the end time.

Why would a atheist care one way or another if God exists

hmm simple if they are wrong then they are going to hell

and misery loves company!

Is God forcing the atheist to come to Him, no ofcourse not!

Are Christians forcing atheist to turn to God , ofcourse not!

So let them write their books all they want and make their

movies in the end God will have final judgement on them!

God Bless!

What, may I ask, is wrong with atheists? We lead moral lives too, you know. Just because we don't follow someone else's rules doesn't mean we're not good people. Get over yourselves man.

Define "good"

Regards,

Ben.

[Scarletprayers]

You know, khalou, after all you have said here about you having known the Lord for 40 years, I just don't believe it. I have know Jesus Christ for 44 years, and I have had a growing relationship, not without trials, but all with Him and His sustaining. When you are truly His, you grow up in Him. When you allow doubt, and bitterness and anger to fester, you tend to become limp and ineffective and even dry up spiritually. You walk in disobedience, and God takes His hand off you.

Why have you not grown? Is it because you have allowed doubt to steal the truth you had? Have you allowed bitterness to poison your sweetness with Jesus? Or did you merely have a mental assent to Christ, mistakenly believing you were a believer?

Anyone who says they were a Christian but aren't now---was never a truly committed believer. They have NEVER tasted of the sweetness of the Lord, for they would NEVER have abandoned Him. Once you know Jesus personally, you cannot deny Him.

It wasn't doubt that led me to believe that Christianity isn't healthy. It was absolute faith in it. Absolute faith in Christianity is not good for human beings mentally, spiritually, or emotionally. The only way it doesn't negatively effect a person is if they have a wishy-washy faith that allows them to be "reasonable" about it and pick and choose what they will take seriously.

I haven't seen any evidence on this board that Faith in Christ isn't what each of you have decided it is according to your own sensibilities. I predict you will all be Christians for the rest of your lives as a result. After all, Christianity is easy when it's on your own terms.

I couldn't just halfway live that life- not if I truly believed it was the truth. Anything less than 100% commitment might as well be called Christianity Lite.

k

100% submission is what it's about. We die to self daily, taking up our Cross and following Jesus! He deserves it all! We are desperate without Him. In so doing, we also have wonderful freedom! Freedom from the pull of sin.

These terms are not ours---they are His! Laying down our own wills, we take up the cause of Christ. What an honour and a blessing. I have eternal life with Him as His promise to me.

I don't understand.

That's what I said. What is your point?

k

Why can't you submit to Christ, khalou? What was your point? "Absolute faith" is detrimental to us, yet wishy-washy faith is good? Very silly notions, indeed.

Not what I said.

I said that if one is a Christian, then there should be absolute faith. Where did I say that wishy-washy faith is actually "good"? It is beneficial to the individual because one gets to pretend that everything they believe is true, no matter how they live, but I couldn't do that. If Christianity is true, then this life is but the wink of an eye. Should I live in a house with two cars and a bank account with thousands of dollars in it and go on vacation to exotic places every year?

I live in Southern California. I've never been to Hawaii, nor even San Francisco. I've never even been to Las Vegas. Why? Because this life is but the wink of an eye and eternity in Heaven is my destination. I once found myself in possession of two cars. I immediately gave one away to a guy that didn't have one. Whenever I found myself with more than I needed, I gave away the excess.

I once had a tyrant for a boss. He was eventually sued and fired for his tyrannical behavior. I never judged him and did exactly as he instructed because God had placed him there. I was rewarded in that, when he was gone, God placed me there. I believed that he was placed there to test us all in order to find out who would be the most faithful leader. The job is much more difficult, but this life is but the wink of an eye.

Yet, I am surrounded by Christians who have two or three cars, go on vacation more than once a year spending thousands of dollars on their own comfort, and for what? Memories and photographs of an earthly paradise? They regularly judge others who are of lesser status than they, and talk about their shrewdness in investments and their possessions.

I'm reminded of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane where the Disciples couldn't even stay awake for the wink of an eye.

I knew that these Christians were saved because they claimed Jesus as their Savior, but wondered about the cognitive dissonance they exhibited in their personal relationship with the world.

k

So you were to bad to be a good Christian, and to good to be a bad Christian?

[Floatingaxe]

Jesus rose from the dead--there is no body here! Believing otherwise is foolishness. There were hundreds of eye-witnesses to His resurrection.

I have hundreds of eyewitnesses that will state the Saddam does indeed have nuclear weapons. Doesn't make it any less false.

Of course I understand people refuse to believe God exists, but that doesn't make it so. He exists and you will find out one day, hopefully before you die. What a monumental error you make in disbelieving! It has forever attached to the consequences.

Kay. You can believe that, but I require substantiation for all of my viewpoints, and I see too many twisted facts when it comes to Christian apologetics to trust any of those organizations with having any regard for the truth.

OK! when you stand before God Almighty, you won't have a leg to stand on. Those so-called reasons for disbelieving are flimsy excuses...they won't hold water. God has made it easy for us, but atheists make it so hard for themselves, thinking that somehow the mind has to be appeased! It doesn't! It's the heart! God speaks to the heart of man! The mind follows.

[redeemed098]

OK! when you stand before God Almighty, you won't have a leg to stand on. Those so-called reasons for disbelieving are flimsy excuses...they won't hold water. God has made it easy for us, but atheists make it so hard for themselves, thinking that somehow the mind has to be appeased! It doesn't! It's the heart! God speaks to the heart of man! The mind follows.

If your god spoke to the heart of man and gave us all the evidence we needed, I would not be an atheist.

Youre NOT an atheist...You are an "enemy of God through wicked works." You just like the NAME atheist because it has a nicer ring to your ears than the word Sinner..AAA...You are NOT an atheist...Never have been and never will be.

Listen to this...."The wicked through the pride of their countenance do NOT seek God..There is no room in all of his thoughts FOR God."

AAA.....You are an enemy of God...Youre not an atheist...No one is an atheist....You are an enemy of God or you are a son of God.

Best you start to realize that...No such thing as atheism..... Never has been. There were NO atheists in the garden of Eden AAA. ENEMY = Against. You speak AGAINST God, whilst claiming that you do not even believe in him. You HATE a God you dont even believe exists....You arent an atheist AAA....You are a rebel. You are in rebellion to God. You seek evidence because faith scares you. God has saved others, but not you...Thats got to be a worrying factor dont you think...?? Why save others and not you...????

Why AAA.....????? What have those who believe got that you are still lacking....??????

The answer AAA is Christ. You are lacking Christ. I know why too.....You seek YOUR way, and not GODS way. You cant seek Gods kingdom YOUR way AAA...Dont you think if you could, you would have found him by now.....???? Gods way AAA, not Your way...Your way is evidence...Gods way is Christ.

God doesnt believe in Atheists. Why would he...?? There is no such thing as atheism...There is only rebellion..Call it what you like, it all comes down to rebellion.

Dont say you cant seek God AAA.....Being an "professed" atheist is a determined decision NOT to seek God. You have made a decision to rebel. Everything is a decision AAA.

Dont say that you CANNOT believe, because you have already chosen to NOT believe. It has nothing to do with evidence..that is just your security blanket excuse to hang on to rather than face the very real accountability to this God you are afraid of. You KNOW you are a sinner, and that scares you...The only hope you can cling to is the hope that God does not exist. You KNOW youre a sinner because you have Knowledge of sin...You know what sin IS...You know Jesus has made the way possible for your reconciliation with God. You have said it yourself...I heard you......

"That's probably about the twentieth time I've heard that message."

You are withOUT excuse, even YOU know this. You are simply looking for just one single shred of hope that you might avoid this wrath of Almighty God that hangs over your condemned soul. The whole irony is that the message we are sharing with you is for the salvation of your very own soul. Youre doing your best NOT to get saved, when all WE are doing is sharing with you the message of HOW to get saved. Do you see the irony here....???

I dont know where your eternal destination is AAA, but I do know that whereEVER it is, it will be perfectly RIGHT. God is always perfectly right. "Far be it for the God of all creation to do Anything Wrong..." This is how we know that we can trust him...It is also what makes us thankful that HE is God and WE are not...

Hopefully one day AAA, you will become tired of being god of your own life and surrender your will to HIS will for you..! I'd really like to see you in Gods Kingdom.

Regards,

Ben.

[Smalcald]

As far as the Hebrew Scriptures or Old Testament, there was always some division about a coming Savior, but indeed there were large groups then who believed in these direct prophesies of a coming Savior and there are Jewish Groups today who are still waiting. But the prophesies are certainly there.

As far as atheists go, well we don't know how someone will come to God when they will have faith or how God will deal with them. I don't think calling people an enemy of God and giving them motives that we don't know or understand is effective though. For example I have a good friend who is a non-believer, I don't know if he would call himself a strict atheist, but he might. Anyway his dad was a very outwardly observant Christian, in fact a deacon in his church. When he came home he beat up his wife and my friend in brutal ways. He often quoted scripture when he did this. Well guess what, my friend did not come out of that home with a positive view of the faith. Maybe someday Christ will come to his life, but is he an enemy of God? I think I would feel the same if that was my experience with Christianity. We don't know very much about people and for this reason I think we should be careful in what we say about somebody

[redeemed098]

As far as the Hebrew Scriptures or Old Testament, there was always some division about a coming Savior, but indeed there were large groups then who believed in these direct prophesies of a coming Savior and there are Jewish Groups today who are still waiting. But the prophesies are certainly there.

As far as atheists go, well we don't know how someone will come to God when they will have faith or how God will deal with them. I don't think calling people an enemy of God and giving them motives that we don't know or understand is effective though. For example I have a good friend who is a non-believer, I don't know if he would call himself a strict atheist, but he might. Anyway his dad was a very outwardly observant Christian, in fact a deacon in his church. When he came home he beat up his wife and my friend in brutal ways. He often quoted scripture when he did this. Well guess what, my friend did not come out of that home with a positive view of the faith. Maybe someday Christ will come to his life, but is he an enemy of God? I think I would feel the same if that was my experience with Christianity. We don't know very much about people and for this reason I think we should be careful in what we say about somebody

[LightofJesus]

As far as the Hebrew Scriptures or Old Testament, there was always some division about a coming Savior, but indeed there were large groups then who believed in these direct prophesies of a coming Savior and there are Jewish Groups today who are still waiting. But the prophesies are certainly there.

As far as atheists go, well we don't know how someone will come to God when they will have faith or how God will deal with them. I don't think calling people an enemy of God and giving them motives that we don't know or understand is effective though. For example I have a good friend who is a non-believer, I don't know if he would call himself a strict atheist, but he might. Anyway his dad was a very outwardly observant Christian, in fact a deacon in his church. When he came home he beat up his wife and my friend in brutal ways. He often quoted scripture when he did this. Well guess what, my friend did not come out of that home with a positive view of the faith. Maybe someday Christ will come to his life, but is he an enemy of God? I think I would feel the same if that was my experience with Christianity. We don't know very much about people and for this reason I think we should be careful in what we say about somebody

[Guest]

Man Quibbles!

{If your god spoke to the heart of man and gave us all the evidence we needed, I would not be an atheist.}

God Promises!

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13 )