Self Defense and Defense of Family

[DogTired]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and am reluctant to post this question, but I am confused about many things regarding living a life that honors Jesus, my Savior, and I am hoping y'all can help me sort some of those things out.

For one issue, I have heard many folks over the years make comments regarding whether or not it is sinful for a born again believer to defend themselves against violence, and if so, to what extent, and the opinions are all over the place so to speak. So my request is for some clarification of this subject, if that is possible, from those of you who are confident in answering.

Also, please provide reference to scriptures that support your statments, so I can study further.

If this question is not appropriate here please let me know with reply so I won't repeat.

Thanks

DogTired

[eric]

Hi, dog tired, and welcome to worthy. I notice you are a first time poster and I think you should be asking this question in the seekers forum in the outer sourt. If I am wrong, I'll be told and will apologise.

e

[DogTired]

Hi, dog tired, and welcome to worthy. I notice you are a first time poster and I think you should be asking this question in the seekers forum in the outer sourt. If I am wrong, I'll be told and will apologise.

e

Thanks eric,

I did try to post there but did not have permission for some reason.

DogTired

[DogTired]

Hi Dog tired,

Greetings and welcome,

I know of a man who prior to his salvation knew nothing but anger. It manifested itself in a great deal of violence, some instigated and some in defence.

One of the most blessed experiences he had was to allow someone that punched him in the face no violence in return, then to love that man and pray for his salvation.

This man used to say it's not the size of the man in the fight it's the size of the fight in the man.

He would now say, its not the size of the man in love, it's the size of the love in the man.

When Paul persecuted the saints they took up prayers not arms, blessings, H.

Thanks truster,

I am speaking more of defending against violence with more dire circumstances, i.e. brutal attack against self or family member such as armed intruder, "no time to think" attacks, or such, not a fist-fight. A different level perhaps.

DogTired

[billie]

Yikes, I'd do whatever I had to do to protect my family.

[KarenJo5]

Me too Billie

[firehill]

I am speaking more of defending against violence with more dire circumstances, i.e. brutal attack against self or family member such as armed intruder, "no time to think" attacks, or such, not a fist-fight. A different level perhaps.

DogTired

1 Corinthians

13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

13:5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1) Love protects. (family, friends etc.)

2) How does one love thy neighbor as thyself if one does not love thyself? (If one loves thyself one protects thyself with exception of the work of the Holy Spirit...called to endure hardship...) If we protect our mind from the wiles of the Devil why would we not from his will of physical destruction?

[aftwine]

I'm probably not the best to respond to this post, I grew up in violence (school and friends not home) so my first answer is yes.

Thought about it a little more.

Still yes, it would be very stupid and un-Christlike to watch someone brutally kill my wife or son or even a stranger when I could help by defending by any means necessary.

Sadly to many of you, but if anyone did hurt my family and I got to them before the cops .. . .. well i'd probably kill them.

[Marnie]

Christians are not doormats; there is nothing glorifying to G-d in allowing your family to be killed when it is within your power to prevent it.

[irishcowboy]

we are told that we are to turn the other cheek, i do not really feel this means we need to be walked on like a doormat... I do not feel, also, that it means we wait until the second hit to start swinging....

a story i heard once about Chuck Norris ( dont know if true or not, unverified )

he walked into a bar/bar and grill (as the story goes) and he found a seat and sat down..

a big burrly fellow walked over and told him that he was in his seat, Chuck appoligized and got up and moved as the guy was saying this in a threatening mood and when Chuck moved this guy was laughing that he had gotten over on someone.... as he was gloating over this with his buddies, and had not sat down where Chuck had just moved from, some one in the group had made a comment that the guy he just messed with was Chuck Norris..... he went over to appoligize for what he had done, and asked Chuck why he just got up and did not choose to fight for the seat.... Chuck replyed .....What good would it have done, other then make another enemy? as it is, you are not an enemy and neither of us are hurting....

a bit of common sense at times works wonders, that is why God gave it to us....

now, Christ did tell the deciples as they were going out what to take with them, and one thing was that they were to have a sword.....

another story, that is true.....

a boy was being picked on, for quite some time in school by several other boys... (something not unheard of recently) and as happens, the boy, not wanting to be a SISSY, tends to take it for quite a while, not wanting anyone to get in trouble, even asks to have his seat changed (assigned seating) and the instructor denying the request....

one day just prior to class starting, the boy takes his books and goes to ask to be moved to a different seat again (his grades are not well at all because of the lack of attentivness due to being picked on in class)

the other students in the class knew what was going on, the teacher chose to turn a blind eye....another student even warned the boys, that they were digging for trouble.....

as the one boy waited for the teacher to acknowledge him there, one of the other boys, came up behind him and punched him in the back, the boy turn and with three hits, sent him to the back wall of the room, knocking out two rows of desk, bloodying his nose, blacking his eye, busting a tooth and splitting the bullies lip... then turns to the teacher and says " NOW CAN I MOVE"!!!!!

needless to say, the boy was suspended, and the teacher was repremanded.. this was in 1974....

after this incident, those two boys became friends..... the others in the group were shunned by the one that had been plowed... but they never again messed with the first boy....

as for defending a family member or another person, i have defended a person outside the family from some one in the family....why???? cause i do not know their standing with Christ....

so is it wrong to stand in and possibly save anothers life that may or maynot be a follower???? or even from bodily harm???

i dont think so.... for what greater love is shown or given then by one giving his life for another.....

again, i believe we need to use some common sense here.....

it is wise, sometimes to pick the battle ground, sometimes the fight will be there no matter what, so at least pick the battle ground and even the time.....

maybe, just maybe, if some would stand up and be counted, instead of just being bystanders not wanting to get involved, or cause trouble or get some one in trouble, maybe they would stand up and stand beside a person being bullied.... there just might not be as many problems in the schools.....

i have personally watched, as a bully would walk by and punch a kid, and keep on walking, and then turn around and walk by again and do it again, as teachers were walking into the school, this was taking place on school grounds, the teachers would literally turn their head so they did not have to see it.... THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE BOTHERED BY IT.......

but

if the kid getting punched retalliated, then he would get hauled into the school office.....the teachers would see that.....

one child, being bullied, reported it to his teachers, and then also to the counslor and also the principle, the boys father even went to the principle (with an appointment) and the principle ignored him, until he said he was taking the matter to the state board of education... then the principle pretended to start listening....

the matter was still not resolved, and the boy even went to the Police Department and filed a complaint against the bully.... nothing happened.. nothing was done..... this was then reported to the state, and the reply was that it sounds like a simple case of bullying, and that if it did not fall under religious, race, gender, national origin ..... then it would have to be handled at the local level...... THIS WAS THE FALL AFTER COLUMBINE.....

this sort of thing is still going on.....

no one wants to get involved.....

should i stand up and defend some one other then my self from threat of bodily harm or death????

ABSOLUTELY

MIKE