Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Floatingaxe]

C'mon already! Go back and read my posts on this subject.....A Believer HAS Salvation up UNTIL the point of DENIAL ...What's confusing about that? Judas Iscariot HAD SALVATION UNTIL He chose by freewill to DENY Jesus(accept the choice to betray Him), therefore God ALLOWING satan to enter him THUS Judas LOST his Salvation. You have Salvation until the point of denying Christ. He said it...in Matthew 10 v 33 READ IT. And then he reitterates in Matthew 7 v 23....

This thread is now just going in circles for arguments sake...

I think I somewhat agree with you, but I don't think that you have to deny him to lose it. You can still acknowledge Christ, and choose to ignore his holy spirit convicting you of your sin, which inturn can grieve away the Holy Spirit and you will not feel the conviction for repentence. In so doing you commit the unpardinable sin, because you will not repent of it.

That is what you consider THE unpardonable sin?

Maybe,... if you understood me correctly.

why don't you tell me what you think it is and then I will explain better what I think it is?

I believe that the unpardonable sin is what Jesus said it was...to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I don't particularly believe that denying Him is blasphemous...it just grieves Him, and He will take His anointing off you. But to actively blaspheme and curse the Holy Spirit, and attribute His glory and His power in us as of the devil, for instance, you would have to be either an apostate Christian or a depraved human being without any hope of finding Christ whatsoever, with a totally debased mind and seared conscience, who could care less whether they committed such an offense or not.

[Guest lnj]

AMEN!!!!!

[Guest lnj]

C'mon already! Go back and read my posts on this subject.....A Believer HAS Salvation up UNTIL the point of DENIAL ...What's confusing about that? Judas Iscariot HAD SALVATION UNTIL He chose by freewill to DENY Jesus(accept the choice to betray Him), therefore God ALLOWING satan to enter him THUS Judas LOST his Salvation. You have Salvation until the point of denying Christ. He said it...in Matthew 10 v 33 READ IT. And then he reitterates in Matthew 7 v 23....

This thread is now just going in circles for arguments sake...

I think I somewhat agree with you, but I don't think that you have to deny him to lose it. You can still acknowledge Christ, and choose to ignore his holy spirit convicting you of your sin, which inturn can grieve away the Holy Spirit and you will not feel the conviction for repentence. In so doing you commit the unpardinable sin, because you will not repent of it.

That is what you consider THE unpardonable sin?

Maybe,... if you understood me correctly.

why don't you tell me what you think it is and then I will explain better what I think it is?

I believe that the unpardonable sin is what Jesus said it was...to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I don't particularly believe that denying Him is blasphemous...it just grieves Him, and He will take His anointing off you. But to actively blaspheme and curse the Holy Spirit, and attribute His glory and His power in us as of the devil, for instance, you would have to be either an apostate Christian or a depraved human being without any hope of finding Christ whatsoever, with a totally debased mind and seared conscience, who could care less whether they committed such an offense or not.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit IS the rejection and denying of the Holy Spirit. To REJECT the Holy Spirit IS called blaspheming the Holy Spirit. To want/choose to have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. My AMEN response was to you TomPjr!!

[TomPJr]

C'mon already! Go back and read my posts on this subject.....A Believer HAS Salvation up UNTIL the point of DENIAL ...What's confusing about that? Judas Iscariot HAD SALVATION UNTIL He chose by freewill to DENY Jesus(accept the choice to betray Him), therefore God ALLOWING satan to enter him THUS Judas LOST his Salvation. You have Salvation until the point of denying Christ. He said it...in Matthew 10 v 33 READ IT. And then he reitterates in Matthew 7 v 23....

This thread is now just going in circles for arguments sake...

I think I somewhat agree with you, but I don't think that you have to deny him to lose it. You can still acknowledge Christ, and choose to ignore his holy spirit convicting you of your sin, which inturn can grieve away the Holy Spirit and you will not feel the conviction for repentence. In so doing you commit the unpardinable sin, because you will not repent of it.

That is what you consider THE unpardonable sin?

Maybe,... if you understood me correctly.

why don't you tell me what you think it is and then I will explain better what I think it is?

I believe that the unpardonable sin is what Jesus said it was...to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I don't particularly believe that denying Him is blasphemous...it just grieves Him, and He will take His anointing off you. But to actively blaspheme and curse the Holy Spirit, and attribute His glory and His power in us as of the devil, for instance, you would have to be either an apostate Christian or a depraved human being without any hope of finding Christ whatsoever, with a totally debased mind and seared conscience, who could care less whether they committed such an offense or not.

I agree that it is what Jesus said it was...

but we also compare scripture to get a better understanding of just exactly what that meant.

Acts 7:51,

[Floatingaxe]

Well, I have said that in less words before, so we agree...except do you believe that if I have a sin that I have neglected to run to Jesus with that I will not have a hope of heaven?

[HAZARD]

In the Bible we not only have many passages plainly stating that eternal life can be lost and that the saved who sin will die and be damned, but we have many concrete cases of men, and angels who once had eternal life and were in grace and in favour with God, and who sinned and will be damned in Hell forever, regardless of their sonship, and past union with God in grace.

Classic examples.

Lucifer, better known as Satan and the devil, and over one third of God's angels sinned and are to be damned in a Hell especially prepared for them (Matt. 24:41). It would be folly for anyone to argue that they were not once holy and sinless and in God's favour and grace. Angels are definately called "sons of God" (Gen. 6:1-4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). These sons of God in Job could not be men, for they were present when God laid the foundations of the Eafth long before man was created (Job 38:4-7). If these "sons of God" fell and are to be damned, then the argument of some that if a man is once a son he cannot be lost or else salvation is not salvation and eternal life is not eternal life, is proved to be a false theory. If God will damn some of creation who were in grace and who are called "sons," then He will also damn others if they sin, else God is unjust and a respecter of persons.

Lucifer is spoken of as being "perfect in they ways from the day that thou wast created, TILL iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:11-17).

Saul, who was in God's favour and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14). He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal live (1 Sam. 28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21). To argue that Saul was never a saved man is to demonstrate a lack of Bible truth. "God gave Saul another heart . . . and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied (1 Sam. 10:9-13). If this was not an experience of the saved man then it was nothing at all. It is also recorded haw the Spirit of God LEFT HIM WHEN HE SINNED (1 Sam. 16:12-23). Saul went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11). He was a very humble and godley man to begine with, but he did notend in this way (1 Sam. 10:21-24).

Ananias and Sapphira were both killed by the power of God because of covetousness and lying to the Holy Ghost (acts 5:1-14). That they were once saved is clear from Acts 4:32-5:1, for Ananias and his wife were classed with "the multitude of them that believed" and "were of one heart and one soul . . . as many as were posessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles feet . . . But a certain man [of those who believed and were of one heart andsoul] named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a posession." If these two were believers and had been saved and were in the church, then it cannot be disputed with any degree of honesty that they were once saved and then lost. To deny they were once saved is to deny thruth and it is not worth the price to pay.

Many galatians who were once saved and had "recieved the Spirit" who had "begun in the Spirit" who were "redeemed and justified by faith," and who were "sons" of God by being made free from sin (Gal. 3:2-4; 3:13; 24; 4:4-7; 5:1-26), FELL "from grace" and Christ became "OF NO EFFECT" unto them (Gal. 5:4, 5). They were "removed from Him" and "from grace," so once in grace always in grace is not biblical unless one stays in grace (Gal. 1:6; 3:1-5; 5:1-9). They were plainly told that to go back under the law and into sins of the flesh, meant to "frustrate [cause to fail, nullify, make void] the grace of God" and that in such case they were not in grace and would reap corruption (Gal. 2:21; 5:1-9; 6:7, 8). They were told that if they built again the things of sin that were "once destroyed" they were transgressors and sinners (Gal. 2:17-18). They were taught that true eternal security was by walking in the spirit and not fulfilling the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:16-26; 6:7, 8). Paul did not tell then that if they got in grace their responsibility as to sin was over. He accused them of falling from grace (Gal. 5:4), so such must be possible.

Many other men who were formerly saved have gone back into sin and have bee lost. This fact is clear from such statements as these: "some having put away concerning the faith have MADE SHIPWRECK. . . . he hath DENIED THE FAITH. . . . when they begin to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; HAVING DAMNATION, BECAUSE they have CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH . . . and TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN . . . But they that will FALL INTO TEMPTATION AND A SNARE, and INTO MANY FOOLISH AND HURTFUL LUSTS, WHICH DROWN MEN IN DESTRUCTION AND PERDITION. . . . they HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH. . . . and OVERTHRONE the FAITH OF SOME. . . . If God will preadventure give them REPENTANCE. . . . that they may RECOVER THEMSELVES OUT OF THE SNARE OF THE DEVIL" (1 Tim. 1"19, 20; 5:8; 5:11-15, 20; 6:1, 10, 21; 2 Tim. 2:18-16).

Each one of the statements above would disprove that doctrin of once in grace and faith always in grace and faith and once saved always saved, but here in 1 and 2 Timothy are many such statements in only two small books of the Bible. False security believers go to any lengthin trying to explain away these simple passages because they so clearly contradict their theory. Some of them go so far as to deliberately mistranslate the Greek and quote self made translations of men to prove that such simple statements do not mean what they say. For example, they mistranslate "they have cast off their first faith" to "they have broken their former promises" as if this proves a person cannot be lost. The Greek word "pistin" from "pistis" is never translated promises out of hundreds of times it is used in the New Testament. It is translated "faith" 222 times and is refered to as having faith in Christ in Rom. 1:5,16, 17; 3:25; 4:5-20; 5:1, 2; 10:17; Gal. 2:20; 3:24-29; Eph. 2:9; 4:5; etc. Thus the "faith" that they made shipwreck" of, "denied," "cast off," "erred from," and did "overthrow" is the true saving faith and has no reference to some promise that the people made themselves. They could not cast off, deny, and make shipwreck of, this saving faith if they had not once had it. They could not get into a snare of the devil AGAIN unless they had once been delivered from him. They could not have "turned aside" AGAIN after Satan, if they had not been following Christ. They could not have ERRED FROM the faith through hurtful lusts that "drowned in destruction and purdition" if they had not been once in the faith and free from such lusts. They could not have their faith OVERTHROWN if they had none to overthrow.

[Guest lnj]

In Matthew 12 v 31,32

The Pharisees slandered the Holy Spirit by KNOWLEDGEABLY attributing His work to the devil, thus committing the unpardonable sin. Their sin was not an act of IMPULSE OR IGNORANCE but the result of a CONTINUED and WILLFUL REJECTION of the TRUTH concerning Jesus. It was sin against Spiritual knowledge, for they had ample EVIDENCE of the TRUTH from the WORDS and DEEDS of Jesus. In delberatley CHOOSING to insult the Holy Spirit, they forfeited His ministry in their lives and WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN.

This is the notes from the NKJV talking about the Pharisees.

My own words:

This attitude exists AMONG Believers to this day, the branches that DO NOT bear fruit will be REJECTED and tossed into the everlasting fire. Continued sin by believers will harden their hearts and they WILL lose their Salvation if they draw away from the midst of God. You cannot be connected to the Vine displaying repeated acts of sin. You do not have the Holy Spirit within you if that's the case.

[Floatingaxe]

Sorry, too long to read, but I scanned it good! I think that it is ridiculous to assume that we are going to have brought to mind EVERY single sin that we have ever committed in order to repent of each one before the Lord and receive our inheritance. Every believer has some sin that cannot be remembered..we are fallible! But Jesus' blood is sufficient for all our sin, whether we remember it or not. As much as we are able, we are responsible to bring our sins before the Cross, but we cannot lose our salvation over forgotten sin, and the sins of your forgotten youth.

That being said, those Christians who sin willfully here and there, do grieve the Holy spirit and this stunts their growth and anointing in the Lord...very real present consequences. At Bema, there will be loss of rewards, but no loss of a heavenly home.

Those who depart from their ways in God and turn their back on the Cross could very easily lose their home in heaven. According to Revelation 3:5

All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

there is obviously the power to erase, or He wouldn't say what He did.

There are countless scriptures we can all read that attest to the fact that those who participate regularly in certain sins will not see the kingdom of God, and those who have tasted the heavenly gift to be renewed again to repentance. Sad but true.

[Guest lnj]

I think we have all brought our say to the table... . This discussion could carry on, but the question has been answered and the thread seems to have run it's course.

[Floatingaxe]

I think we have all brought our say to the table... . This discussion could carry on, but the question has been answered and the thread seems to have run it's course.