Ovedya Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted February 20, 2007 some think it is when you accept Christ. I think it is when your heart is converted. When Christ is received the heart is converted: "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them; I will take the stony heart out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh," (Ezek. 11:19) There is only one prerequisite to receiving the Lord: "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes on Him shall not be put to shame.'' ... For "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'' (Rom. 10:9-11, 13) Anything in addition is either a work or man's addition to the pure and simple Gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted February 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted February 20, 2007 ou said that the unpardinable sin is the rejection of the Holy Spirit.....I think that you are right...by ignoring the Holy Spirits convictions to repent, you are rejecting the work of the Holy Spirit. If you do this long enough you will ultimately harden your heart so much that your conscience is seared to the point at which you no longer hear the voice of the Holy Spirit trying to bring you into repentence and you will no longer feel the need to ask for forgiveness. We need to do that to be saved, and if you don't allow the Holy Spirit to convert your heart, then you will be ultimately lost. It is your choice. That is why scripture says "If you hear my voice, now is the time, today is the day".....if you keep procrastinating, you are increasing the bad habbits and silencing the voice of God. This is a huge rationalization, and poor interpretation, unsupported at all by Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2007 Questions? I know that when one is born again that they are made a partaker of the divine nature of God the second Adam as God imparts to us His nature. Now that being the case does that mean that the old nature of sin we were born with under the first Adam still is present with us as well? Do not these two natures inside of us war against one another? Then if we walk according to the old man of sin then we are under the law of sin and death once again and are in bondage to the nature of the first Adam we were born with we have fruits unto death. But if we walk in the Spirit and follow the Spirit and will of God and bear the Spirit's fruit unto life. For example instead comitting fornication which would be walking in the fleshly nature of the first Adam the nature of Satan I was to resist the devil then I would bear the fruits of the Spirit as a result of saying no because I would have peace with God and have joy and love as a result of saying no the the old man of sin and yielding my vessel to the Spirit of God. Right There were many places where Jesus said you are of your Father the devil. Why did Jesus say that? I think it was because they did the will of Satan in the nature that was imparted unto us from the beginning in the garden. But when we were born again we were set free no longer a slave to that old man of sin we inherited from the first Adam and was made a partaker of the divine nature of God through the second man Adam being Jesus Christ. And now Satan is no longer our father but God the Father is our Heavenly Father and it is his will we must do or else we following the nature of Satan and go back up under the law of sin and death. Just curious if anyone has any answers regarding this. oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2007 Questions? but God the Father is our Heavenly Father and it is his will we must do or else we following the nature of Satan and go back up under the law of sin and death. Just curious if anyone has any answers regarding this. oc Hmm that would mean the blood shed on the cross by Jesus wasn't sufficient enough to overcome the law when we accept him as Lord over our life. You stated three words that threw up a red flag for me...."we must do"....we mustn't do anything but place our faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted February 21, 2007 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matt 19:16-19 (KJV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew4:4 Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 117 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1986 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I agree with you. Obviously we need to look at the whole scripture and understand what type of people it is in reference to. Its referring to false prophets who acted in part of the Lord but obviously did not truly know Jesus in their heart for this is why Jesus says in verse 23 Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me evildoers! Why will they not be accepted into heaven? Because they never knew Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Just kinda repeating what you said but I liked it. Nice work! This is not referring to false prophets. It is referring to those who work iniquity. Just because the words "false prophets" was mentioned in several verses above does not mean that these we speaking of them. This is a whole new thought that Christ went into. These verses are speaking expressly of those who have a belief in God but chose rather to live their lives in sin. We know that the world is filled with people who who will confess that there is a God and even claim to be saved, but in actions deny him. That is why james said that faith without works is dead. Ok, I apologize its not just about false prophets but it is referring to them too. In a whole it refers to people who have a belief in God like you said but do not truly believe in Christ Jesus, but they were doing the works. It says in verse 22, many will come to me on that same day and say, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoer!' So we are kind of in agreement here. The main point is Christ never knew them. These people were never saved for they did not know christ. Works really had nothing to do with it. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew4:4 Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 117 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1986 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Futhermore, let me just post these questions. Please answer me fairly and withought bias. If I die during a sin am I not saved? No, you say. Ok, then is there a certain number of sin's before losing salvation or a certain number of works that must be done? Is there a sin limit? Or a works minimum? If so, that would mean that Jesus Christ died in vain because he did not pay the cover for all of my sins. So, I guess he wasnt really all that important anyway. Think about this your brother in christ, matthew P.S.- And if you need some scripture, I got a boatload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hmm that would mean the blood shed on the cross by Jesus wasn't sufficient enough to overcome the law when we accept him as Lord over our life. You stated three words that threw up a red flag for me...."we must do"....we mustn't do anything but place our faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. Are you sure there is nothing sinners "must do" beyond having faith in Jesus Christ? On the Day of Pentecost Peter preached to those who had rejected and crucified the Lord. They were "pricked in their heart", i.e., convicted of their sins and believing Peter's message they asked, "What shall we do?" Peter's answer was in accordance with the "Great Commission" when he commanded those who believed the gospel to "repent, and be baptized" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hmm that would mean the blood shed on the cross by Jesus wasn't sufficient enough to overcome the law when we accept him as Lord over our life. Why wasn't it sufficient enough to overcome the law? It is my understanding that the Lord set us free from the old nature of sin and that is something the old letter of the law could never do as they were held in bondage to their flesh and even the blood of the bulls and goats couldn't take away the old nature of sin. You stated three words that threw up a red flag for me...."we must do"....we mustn't do anything but place our faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. How does one place and keep their faith in God if it is not to live out their faith and walk according to the new man created in Christ Jesus and do not walk anymore according to the old man of sin? The work is done by what Jesus did on the cross and nothing of our own as there was not an old testament law that was given that could make one righteous within that is why the old testament covenant was of no effect according to Hebrews 8:7-13--(vs 7)"For if that first covenant had been "faultless" then should no place have been sought for the second. So we cannot boast in the old letter of the law but only in the cross. If we had had a law given that could make us righteous to start with Jesus would not have needed to come and die on the cross and our boast would have been in the works of the law as we could point to a particular law and do it and be righteous because of it but it wasn't given to us as righteousness only comes by Jesus Christ the imparted nature of God Himself to us hence the law of libery where by Christ set us free and the blood of Christ sprinkled our conscious from dead works the old man's deeds to serve the living God the works of the Spirit of God or the fruits of the Spirit in our lives. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted February 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2007 thank you cardcaptor and horizoneast for answering my questions oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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