Pagan Origins and Christianity

[John R Nolan]

Things, Practices or Beliefs with Pagan Origins or aren't exclusively "Christian":

god incarnate

messiah born of a virgin

dying god

baptism

referring to god as "El" (one of the Canaanite pagan deities was called El and considered the Creator)

the english word "god" (originally used to refer to pagan gods)

god riding on the clouds (one of Baal's titles was "Rider on the Clouds")

circumcision (a procedure commonly used in pagan practices prior to God's covenant with Abraham)

embalming (which Joseph accepted in spite of it's pagan origins, see Gen. 49:29-50:3)

blowing candles out on birthday cakes (Greco-Roman paganism)

wedding rings

flowers at funerals and gravesites

modern symbols for male/female (derived from Mars/Venus)

medical symbol of a staff/snakes (staff carried by Hermes/Mercury and Aesculapius, god of medicine)

statue of liberty (symbolic of Libertas, Roman goddess of Liberty)

modern symbol for justice with blindfolded female holding scales (symbolic of Themis, Greek goddess of order, law and justice)

halloween

easter

christmas

birthday celebrations

calendars (first developed among pagans and containing names of pagan deities:

January = Janus (the Roman god of beginnings)

February = Februa (pagan festival of purification)

March = Mars (pagan god of war)

April = Aphrodite

May = (pagan goddess of Maia)

June = Juno (wife of Jupiter, pagan queen of the gods)

The days of the week also signify pagan practice/beliefs:

Sunday = pagan day of the sun

Monday = pagan day of the moon

Tuesday = pagan warrior god Teutonic

Wednesday = Wotan, another Teutonic god

Thursday = Thor (Norse thunder god)

Friday = Frigg (Norse goddess of love)

Saturday = saturn (Roman god of the harvest)

This isn't an exhaustive list by any means, but gives a good example of things we all use, practice or believe in that did not have "Christian" origins. So what is a Christian to do? Do we commit idolatry when we celebrate our children's birthdays? Is God offended each time we speak the names of the months, days of the week or refer to our modern concept of time? Should we avoid going to the doctor and hospitals because they contain pagan symbols throughout their offices, documents and clothing? My question is...why should we? Why do origins dictate anything? I think this would an irrational (and unnecessary) response.

It is obvious throughout Scripture that God is not only not offended by things previously considered "pagan", He even uses (or impliments) these common practices into His covenants (i.e. circumcision and baptism). He even referred to Himself in terms previously used by pagan deities (i.e. Baal, and Canaanite god, see above). We must remember two important things:

1. God looks at the heart/intentions/motives (we see numerous times in Scripture that a "good" practice can be condemned due to wrong motives, while something commonly recognized as a "bad" practice can be acceptable because of right motives). Clearly, it is not always the practice that determines whether it is acceptable, it is most often the person's heart attitude while performing these practices.

2. God is Redeemer. Satan is not a creator, he only distorts things that God creates. So do we simply abandon everything satan distorts? Or do we seek to bring God's redemption to that area of our lives/culture? Genesis 50:20 teaches us that even things that satan intends for evil, God can use for good. This is because His inherent nature entails Redemption.

It is extremely dangerous for people to adopt this puritanical idea that we must avoid all things with pagan origins. Not only is it impossible to live this belief consistently (for one must then avoid everything on the above lists, including baptism), it also borders on Gnosticism (a heretical belief/religion which was the early church's most dangerous threat).

Paul taught in Romans 14 that it is not sinful for believers to eat foods that had previously been sacrificed to idols. He spoke of freedom and nowhere outlined anything as "off-limits" due to how something was previously used and/or distorted. If we are allowed to eat meat which had been used to honor pagan gods, why can't we celebrate a day that our God created even if some have distorted this day and use it for something else? If we do not worship another god, commit idolatry or violate specific commands of God how can it be sinful? In Acts 17, Paul even quoted pagan philosophers and used their terminology to describe the One True God (vs. 22-32). If he can quote them and use their very words to bring glory to God, doesn't this show that it's how these things are used which matters and not the things themselves?

[John R Nolan]

PAGAN ORIGINS

There is any amount of evidence through the Scriptures which discuss pagan rituals, etc., but we need remember, the battle GOD'S children have had, since the fall, is keeping pagan rituals out of their worship

Sadly the children of the devil have been in the mix since Cain, who is of the wicked one,1 Jn 3:12. and we need remember that Cain was very religious

He built alters, sacrificed to GOD, though his sacrifice was not acceptable, he spoke with GOD, and his children have maintained a psuedo religious relationship with one they call god since that time

GOD laid down certain parameters and the children of the devil, the sons of Cain perverted the original concepts into demonic practise

The sacrifice of their own children to BAAL, etc

Today, Christianity also has certain practise, but mostly what is practised is a perversion of the original CHRISTIANITY; a marriage of paganism and Christianity which has produced illegitimate children, children of the devil

All records show the Lord Jesus Christ was born in April, not on December 25th, which is the day chosen when christianity was made the state religion by Constantine

Xmas is absolutely a pagan ceremony, as is Easter and all the other religious holidays and ceremonies "Christian" denominations practise

A study of "TWO BABYLONS" by Alexander Hyslop will help students clarify some of these issues as will any other serious religious history work

The Roman Catholic church, (the organization, not the deluded people who make up her victims) is a duplication of Babalonian demonic worship

All religion is contrary to GOD's Word

It is time for CHRISTIANS to come out of her, and get back into HIM, the WORD

Nothing personal is meant by what is written and no offense is meant, but maybe it is time for CHRISTIANS to look carefully at what they have been taught, lest they be found to be worshipping the devil, believing they are worshipping GOD

[Prodigalson123]

my comment earlier wasn't to cherry pick what you don't like and use origins as an excuse. If we as Christians want to "celebrate" the days, but not as holidays, I think that's fine. We "celebrate" 4th of July, Presidents Day et al, but my point ins....if someone in their heart believes it's wrong to celebrate a holiday,origin being pagan or otherwise, then they can't because to do so is a sin. Romans 14 states that you as a "stronger" believer shouldn't condemn that weaker brother/sister

1. Accept the who is weak in faith, but don't argue about opinions.

2. One person believes that he is allowed to eat anything. But the weaker eats nothing but vegetables.

3. The one who eats must not look down on the one who does not eat. And, the one who does not eat must not condemn the one who eats, because God accepts him, too.

4. Who are you? Can you judge the servant of someone else? That servant's master decides whether he is a good or bad servant, . He will be successful; the Lord is able to make him successful.

5. One person thinks that one day is than another day. But, another man thinks that every day is the same. Each person must be sure in his own mind.

6. When someone is honoring a special day, he is doing this for the Lord. When someone is eating , he is thanking God. And, the who is not eating is doing that for the Lord. He also thanks God!

7. None of us lives alone and none of us dies alone.

8. If we live, let's live for the Lord. If we die, let's die for the Lord. It doesn't matter whether we live or die--we belong to the Lord!

9. Christ died and came back to life, so that he could rule over the living and the dead.

10. But, who are you? Can you judge your brother? Also, why do you look down on your brother? Because we will all stand in front of God at the bench.

11. This is written: ``The Lord says, ` I am alive: Every knee will bow to Me. Every tongue will declare that God.' ''

12. So, each one of us must give an answer to God for the way we live.

13. Stop criticizing one another. Instead, do this: Decide not to put anything there which could trip your brother or cause him to sin.

14. In the Lord Jesus, I know, and I'm sure, that nothing is unholy in and of itself--unless it becomes ``unholy'' to the person who thinks it is unholy.

15. If your brother feels upset because of what you eat, you are not living with love anymore. Don't destroy that with your food; Christ died for him!

16. So, don't let anyone say something evil about your good.

17. God's kingdom does not consist of eating and drinking; what's important is being right with God, having peace, and being happy in the Holy Spirit.

18. The person who serves Christ like this will please God and be liked by people.

19. Therefore, let us try to have peace and build up one another.

20. Don't destroy God's work for the sake of food. Everything is pure. But, it is wrong for a person to eat anything that might trip someone else.

21. It is better if you don't eat meat, drink wine, or do anything that might trip your brother.

22. You have your own faith. Keep it between yourself and God! The person who doesn't feel condemned is happy. He what he is doing.

23. But the person who has doubts feels condemned, if he goes ahead and eats, because he is not sure. A person must be sure that everything he does is right, or else it is sin.

I think Paul is quite clear that neither the weaker nor the more mature Christian should be critical or quarrelsome on this issue. That was my point of the last post. Specifically, I can't and won't celebrate Halloween, Easter or Christmas as "Christian" holidays because they aren't. They have been defiled in the sense that the days were originally pagan holy days and they were Christianized by the early church. Does that mean I condemn any who do? not at all. But the same spirit of contention and quarreling that permeates the fundamentalist to say that

No one should be doing this!

is present when the believer who claims freedom under grace states that

No one can tell me because I'm free

My point is that they are two sides of the same coin, but neither are edifying anyone. Edited October 20, 2006 by Prodigalson123

[LadyRaven]

Prodigalson,

What I said was not an indictment of you or your statements, your statements were more of a jumping off point for me than anything and it wasn't meant to be mean or awful. Nor is the following directed at you, it's something I just need to say.

I, as an ex witch, am the weaker brother on this issue. I can't celebrate Halloween because it's not halloween to me it's Samhain. Even the smallest things have meanings to me that many others wouldn't even consider. Over the years though, I had to become more proactive about Christianity, like I had about my wicca, instead of taking a mindset that was suspicious and avoiding almost everything known to man.

My beef isn't with the stronger people at all. Nor is it with ex witches like me. My beef is for people who have never ever handled anything related to the occult and live their lives n fear that they might so they just avoid things people tell them is evil. It's stupid, unproductive, spiritually confining, legalistic, and paranoid. And when they are told the truth the automatically fall back on the verse that teaches that we're not to stumble the weaker brother. Why not just admit you have different beliefs instead of emotionally abusing the church? We're not slaves to history or human symbols. History belongs to God and human symbols are whatever we want them to be.

No we're not supposed to worship God in a pagan manner. IE, don't bring pagan items of worship into the sanctuary and use them. Don't commit idolatry, etc. And if you took a more proactive view of worship you wouldn't be worried about this because you'd go to scripture and find out how God intended to be worshipped in the first place.

Incarnation day (AKA Christmas), Resurrection day (AKA Easter) celebrations may have roots in really old pagan practices, however, I can tell you that as an ex pagan in the modern world I see nothing in them NOW which pagans do NOW as worship. I tried to avoid those days in my time as a pagan, though I couldn't completely because I lived at home with Christians. I can tell you that to me they're Christian. If you feel convicted that because of the ancient roots it's evil knock yourself out, but be willing to go completely over the hedge and get rid of alot because until the worship of Christ took over most of the world civilisations were already set up by pagans. We'd have to completely restructure everything, including our notion of time keeping, to get rid of anything pagans initiated.

As you worship Him according to the way He has prescribed in scripture you're not going to run into the problem of paganised worship. And in everyday life, when God commanded the Israelites to avoid pagan things in the land He didn't go back and look at what pagans did several hundred years prior to the children of Israel going into the land, he commanded them to avoid things pagans were doing then and there. If you want to avoid paganism, in real life now, it makes much more sense to look at the here and now and not history, as paganism has changed over the years just like Christianity has. Find out what paganism does NOW and avoid that.

(and for the most part Christmas and Easter aren't part of their lives unless they want to appease their kids or blend in)

[Prodigalson123]

no worries LadyRaven, I didn't think you said anything particularly to me, and my comments aren't angry or accusatory to anyone in particular.

[sweetycakes]

Pagan origins of Christianity?

Jesus said,

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

"All who came before me were thieves and robbers."

"I AM the alpha and omega; the first and the last."

From these sentences, I would conclude that Jesus was here first.

In the beginning was the word.....

[Kabowd]

Pagan origins of Christianity?

Jesus said,

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

"All who came before me were thieves and robbers."

"I AM the alpha and omega; the first and the last."

From these sentences, I would conclude that Jesus was here first.

In the beginning was the word.....

Where did anyone say "pagan origins of Christianity"?

Historically, there are practices that predate Christianity (baptism and circumcision for example). Even the concept of a Messiah, born of a virgin who dies for the sins of his followers is not exclusive to Christianity. Of course, those concepts are all void of truth and merely amounted to nothing more than legends.

Yes, God is the Creator. But satan has distorted much of what God created. The point of the topic is to show that just because satan distorted it does not mean it is inherently evil.

[sweetycakes]

Pagan origins of Christianity?

Jesus said,

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

"All who came before me were thieves and robbers."

"I AM the alpha and omega; the first and the last."

From these sentences, I would conclude that Jesus was here first.

In the beginning was the word.....

Where did anyone say "pagan origins of Christianity"?

Historically, there are practices that predate Christianity (baptism and circumcision for example). Even the concept of a Messiah, born of a virgin who dies for the sins of his followers is not exclusive to Christianity. Of course, those concepts are all void of truth and merely amounted to nothing more than legends.

Yes, God is the Creator. But satan has distorted much of what God created. The point of the topic is to show that just because satan distorted it does not mean it is inherently evil.

Ahh, sorry...my mistake.

That is my trouble, I'm afraid. In a rush all the time, as I've only got a one day turnaround before I have to go to work again. I read and type on automatic pilot, I'm afraid, - the same way I drive.

[LadyRaven]

I read and type on automatic pilot, I'm afraid, - the same way I drive.

Oh My. Where are you driving again?

[sweetycakes]

I read and type on automatic pilot, I'm afraid, - the same way I drive.

Oh My. Where are you driving again?

Ha ha. Wherever I end up.

It's true. Just the other day, I was so busy talking and driving that I ended up in Liverpool, about 40 miles out of the direction I was supposed to be going.

It's the age, I think. I find myself having these senior moments more and more recently.

I'm also getting a bald patch, so my daughter tells me...

And grey hair....which is not true.....I sprayed it silver for Christmas!