A grain of salt

[Joshua-777]

I feel the same way. it is very important to pray about it, and pray for discernment. Cause there are alot of wolves, and where are they attacking? Where God is moving the most. I believe in revelation and I strongly believe in prophecy, but I also believe in comfermation. If the Lord doesnt conferm it in my heart, then why would I believe? I have been in many pointless debates, which I am trying to humble myself cause I realized I was way prideful in my own opinion. As far as the Body of Christ, there is alot of separation, and I feel it should be about love, and always stand on Love. With Churches asking constantly for money, when it should be from the heart, not forced. I've seen many things in the body of Christ that I disagree with. State your opinion, and pray for them, pray about it if you feel it's wrong.

[Sweet Servent]

I agree we should be careful in who we give our money to, but have no problem with a minister asking for offerings to keep their ministry afloat. In 2 Corinthians 9, Paul took up a collection of his own.

1 FOR as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:

2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was rady a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.

3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:

4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.

5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minster bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)

11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.

15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Sometimes people would not understand that the ministry needed funds to pay it's bills. I am fine with simply laying the need out there and letting people give as the Lord lays it on their heart. At the same time, I don't believe it is a good practice when ministries try to grow too fast and get themselves into deep debt and then have to beg people to bail them out.

As long as you don't ask me to get you a BENZ, you extremist!

[Sweet Servent]

These money scams in the church come in a host of ways. I guess I might list a few I've seen.

1) Appeal to Greed: "God said if you give me X number of dollars, he's going to give you Y(usually ten or hundred fold) amount in return..."

2) Appeal to sickness: "Holy annointing oil/prayer cloth. Free with your "love offering" of at least X dollars...guaranteed to get your prayer heard..."

3) Appeal to religious nature. I.E. sell you something like a commentary, study guide, or study bible at rip off prices, and make you feel like you are "doing something for Jesus" by buying it...These things are often made using donated labor from loyal followers of the so-called pastor. They cost him nothing but the paper and ink its printed with.

4) Prophesy it. They'll say, "God said we're going to take up $50,000 in $100 gifts tonight." Then they sit there and wait for 500 one hundred dollar gifts.....and often get it. Its funny how its always round numbers.**

5) Guilt trip. "You ought to be ashamed if you didn't give all you could. Look at the widow's two mites, you should have put everything you had in that box..."

6) Imply the gospel will not be preached effectively without your donation. "The gospel can only go as far as the dollar bill can carry it," said one pastor to the congregation.

Well, there are several more, I'm just tired of posting them. These are things you will see in so-called "main stream" christianity, and I havent even gotten to the "cults" yet.

Me too, it's sad.

[Guest man]

though I understand your post - wondering how prophets are expected to pay their bills? What makes them any different than the missionary, pastor, music director, etc.?

How about going out and getting a job.

Paul worked as a tentmaker. Acts 18:3

In 1 Corin. 9:13-15 he talks about offerings and in verse 15 he says he didn't take offerings for himself.

I see no reason why these people can't go out and get a job.

Just my opinion.

[Sweet Servent]

though I understand your post - wondering how prophets are expected to pay their bills? What makes them any different than the missionary, pastor, music director, etc.?

How about going out and getting a job.

Paul worked as a tentmaker. Acts 18:3

In 1 Corin. 9:13-15 he talks about offerings and in verse 15 he says he didn't take offerings for himself.

I see no reason why these people can't go out and get a job.

Just my opinion.

I totally agree! I have seen pastors misuse the money, that was given in tithes and in offerings to help the homeless, so that these criminals could support there sinful life style. I am not saying all ministries are like this but I have seen far to many and it breaks my heart. It causes the young in the Lord to fall away and the sheep to scatter. I keep praying God will clean house and expose these false prophet's and God is.

[terter]

Since we're comparing Biblical prophets and today's - let's use the approved "standards"-

Do you really think for one second that John the Baptist would be accepted in most churches today - you know pass the front door? Allowed to speak? Plus he had declared who Christ is and then later got to feeling sorry for himself and send men to Christ and said "Luk 7:20 ...Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?" What would happen if a prophet did that today - no matter what kind of mood they were in.

Can you just imagine Christians being told a raven feed Elijah? I can just hear it now - That's not logical - you do know that birds eat that type of food, they wouldn't be able to deliver to any person. Or did you see how he got into Baal's prophets' faces, that was very unChristian like. Or how about him living with the widow and her son? That would take care of him today for sure. If that didn't him putting his head between his knees to pay would definitely do it.

Paul - what about his "fruit?"

Hosea - wasn't he the one with a prostitute as a wife? That would really go over with any church's board. What would that say to us today about His character?

Noah would be considered by many to be a FALSE PROPHET into his year 2 of 120 years of him talking about rain - a flood.

Plus Paul and Elijah took contributions.

I understand the concerns posted - I know there's a lot of room for improvement. But sometimes it seems some want to throw the whole idea out just because of a few. But we still have to go with what the Word says. The Lord knew all about these folks including their shortcomings and still used them. Just like He does today.

Edited October 29, 2006 by terter

[Sweet Servent]

Since we're comparing Biblical prophets and today's -

Do you really think for one second that John the Baptist would be accepted in most churches today - in know pass the front door? Allowed to speak?

Can you just imagine the Christians being told a raven feed Elijah? I can just hear it now - That's not logical - you do know that birds eat that type of food, they don't deliver it to any person. Or did you see how he got into Baal's prophets' faces, that was very unChristian like.

Paul - what about his "fruit?"

Hosea - wasn't he the one with a prostitute as a wife? That would really go over with any church's board.

Noah would be considered by many to be a FALSE PROPHET into his year 2 of 120 years of him talking about rain - a flood.

No way would they have listened to John the Baptist, dressed they way he was and eating locusts and honey. No today we want everything dressed pretty in white, cause then you are a real Christian. (not true of all Christian's but let's face it beauty sells)

[Guest man]

Since we're comparing Biblical prophets and today's -

Do you really think for one second that John the Baptist would be accepted in most churches today - in know pass the front door? Allowed to speak?

Can you just imagine the Christians being told a raven feed Elijah? I can just hear it now - That's not logical - you do know that birds eat that type of food, they don't deliver it to any person. Or did you see how he got into Baal's prophets' faces, that was very unChristian like.

Paul - what about his "fruit?"

Hosea - wasn't he the one with a prostitute as a wife? That would really go over with any church's board.

Noah would be considered by many to be a FALSE PROPHET into his year 2 of 120 years of him talking about rain - a flood.

No way would they have listened to John the Baptist, dressed they way he was and eating locusts and honey. No today we want everything dressed pretty in white, cause then you are a real Christian. (not true of all Christian's but let's face it beauty sells)

It's called "marketing".

[Sweet Servent]

Since we're comparing Biblical prophets and today's -

Do you really think for one second that John the Baptist would be accepted in most churches today - in know pass the front door? Allowed to speak?

Can you just imagine the Christians being told a raven feed Elijah? I can just hear it now - That's not logical - you do know that birds eat that type of food, they don't deliver it to any person. Or did you see how he got into Baal's prophets' faces, that was very unChristian like.

Paul - what about his "fruit?"

Hosea - wasn't he the one with a prostitute as a wife? That would really go over with any church's board.

Noah would be considered by many to be a FALSE PROPHET into his year 2 of 120 years of him talking about rain - a flood.

No way would they have listened to John the Baptist, dressed they way he was and eating locusts and honey. No today we want everything dressed pretty in white, cause then you are a real Christian. (not true of all Christian's but let's face it beauty sells)

It's called "marketing".

Maybe we should hire JESUS a marketing/PR rep.... (tongue cheek)

Edited October 30, 2006 by Sweet Servent

[Sweet Servent]

I am a believer and have been for 14 going 15 years. I have see a lot in the body of Christ and I wonder if it's just me or not. But I see so many of my fellow brothers and sisters falling for things hook line and sinker, and in some cases we are just as bad as the world gossiping and believing lies told by someone who claims to be a Christian. Prophecy is wonderful thing but I myself am careful not to jump to believing those telling me a prophecy, even more so when they ask for a love offering. I am always reminded of this scripture: Matthew 10:16 16Behold, I am sending you out like sheep in the midst of wolves; be [c]wary and wise as serpents, and be innocent (harmless, guileless, and [d]without falsity) as doves.(A).

Does anyone else feel this way?

Hi Sweet Servant,

I would rather see the question phrased a different way, there are those who think they are Prophets, then there are those who interpret Prophecy...let's not confuse the two.

False Prophets always try to lead you away from Christ but true Prophecy will lead you to Christ.

Revelation 19:10

10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Peace

CJ

Chris can you please explain what you meant? And can you give me scriptural back up? If you mean there are people who really work for the emeny and have let their gifts go dark then yes, but I am not sure that is what you mean.

Thanks