US will have to fight dirty in new wars

[Guest LadyC]

great point butero. thanks for reminding me of that. she only served to validate the point you were making!

i have to get dinner cooked, so i'll be taking a short break. maybe while i'm on that break servant, you would be so kind as to find some evidence to support the accusations you made. evidence, not fluff that you can twist around to distract from your own accusations, but the real thing, as i have repeatedly requested.

[ted]

How many idoits have killed Cops and innocent people with the weapons they have gotten at Walmart.....

Hmm....good question.

I'm assuming you have the answer and can prove it through reliable statistical reports?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose that many, if not most, gun related killings are committed by people who procured their weapons from illegal sources, not from Wal-Mart.

t.

Most are done in the heat of the moment or by accident. Here's a study from Harvard, but wait is higher education liberal?

Harvard Injury Control

Research Center

Fact Sheet: More Guns, More Deaths

Over the past decade there has been substantial progress in empirically examining the

extent to which the availability of firearms may be related to increased mortality. This

document outlines key research in homicide, suicide, unintentional gun deaths, gun

carrying, and self-defensive gun use. For a quick introduction to the public health

approach to studying firearm injury and death, see:

Hemenway, David. The public health approach to motor vehicles, tobacco and alcohol,

with applications to firearms policy. Journal of Public Health Policy. 2001; 22:381-

402.

For a comprehensive summary of the literature on the relationship between guns and

injuries and a thorough understanding of how the public health field can minimize the

adverse effects of guns, see:

Hemenway, David. Private Guns, Public Health. Ann Arbor, MI: University of Michigan

Press, 2004.

SUICIDE

Miller M, Hemenway D; Azrael D. Firearms and suicide in the Northeast. Journal of

Trauma. 2004;57:626-632.

Major Finding: This study analyzed mortality data and hospital discharge data on selfinflicted

injury and Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System data on household

firearm ownership from seven states in the Northeast. It found that firearm

prevalence was positively related to the suicide rate, even after controlling for rates of

attempted suicide.

Miller M, Hemenway D. The relationship between firearms and suicide: A review of the

literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior. 1999; 4:59-75.

Major Finding: This review of the scientific literature on the relationship between gun

ownership levels and suicide rates finds that the vast majority of current evidence

indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for suicide in the US.

Dahlberg LL, Ikeda RM, Kresnow MJ. Guns in the home and risk of a violent death in the

home: findings from a national study. American Journal of Epidemiology. 2004;

160(10):929-36.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center February 22, 2005

2

Major Findings: Analysis of a US mortality follow-back survey finds that among a

sample of people who died at home, those who had a gun in the home were at

significantly higher risk than those who did not of dying from homicide or from

suicide, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the

home.

Brent DA and Bridge J. Firearms availability and suicide: a review of the literature.

American Behavioral Scientist. 2003; 46: 1192-1210.

Major Findings: Case-control studies show an association between firearms in the home

and completed suicide, with higher risks associated with loaded guns and handguns in

the home. Quasi-experimental studies also show a relationship between greater

restrictiveness of gun control laws and lower suicide rates by firearms and overall,

although some studies fail to show an effect or show method substitution. A

prospective study shows that handgun purchasers have an elevated risk for suicide for

up to 6 years after the purchase.

Wiebe D. Homicide and suicide risks associated with firearms in the home: a national

case-control study. Ann Emerg Med. 2003; 41(6):771-82.

Major Findings: Using nationally-representative population survey data and mortality

follow-back data on homicide and suicide victims, this study found that adults in

homes with guns were at a significantly higher risk of suicide and homicide than

adults in homes without guns, especially for suicide by firearm.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Household firearm ownership levels and suicide

across US regions and states, 1988-1997. Epidemiology. 2002;13: 517-24.

Major Findings: The authors analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and

suicide across 50 states over a ten year period. After controlling for poverty and

urbanization, for every age group, across the United States, people in states with

many guns have elevated rates of suicide, particularly firearm suicide.

Grossman D, Mueller B, Riedy C, et al. Guns storage practices and risk of youth suicide

and unintentional firearm injuries . JAMA, 2005;293 (6):707-714.

Major Findings: This case control study measured the association between household

gun storage practices (locking guns, locking ammunition, storing guns unloaded) and

the risk of unintentional and self-inflicted firearm injuries. Each was associated with a

protective effect, suggesting a feasible strategy to reduce firearm injury in homes with

guns and youths.

.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center February 22, 2005

3

HOMICIDE

Hepburn L, Hemenway D. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature.

Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-440.

Major Finding: A broad array of evidence from the academic literature indicates that

gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high

income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional

studies indicate that, controlling for urbanicity, in homes, cities, states and regions in

the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for

homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Wiebe D. Homicide and suicide risks associated with firearms in the home: a national

case-control study. Ann Emerg Med. 2003; 41(6):771-82.

Major Findings: Using nationally-representative population survey data and mortality

follow-back data on homicide and suicide victims, this study found that adults in

homes with guns were at a significantly higher risk of suicide and homicide than

adults in homes without guns. The risk of homicide was particularly high among

women compared with men.

Cook PJ, Moore M. Guns, gun control and homicide: a review of research and public

policy. In: MD Smith & MA Zahn, eds. Homicide: A Sourcebook of Social Research.

Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage, 1999.

Major Findings: This chapter reviews trends in gun ownership and examines use of guns

for self defense and for criminal purposes, concluding that: 1) gun use for selfdefense

is relatively rare, and 2) while there is little evidence that robbery and assault

rates are influenced by gun prevalence, there is compelling evidence of a strong

association between guns and lethal robbery and assault (i.e. homicide). The

relationship between instrumentality and availability of guns and homicide is

explored, and public policy recommendations for reducing gun violence are made.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide

rates across US regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health.

2002; 92: 1988-93.

Major Finding: An analysis of the relationship between firearm availability and

homicide across 50 states over a ten year period, and found that after controlling for

poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have

elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB, et al. Gun ownership as a risk factor for

homicide in the home. New England Journal of Medicine. 1993; 329:1084-91.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center February 22, 2005

4

Major Finding: This case-control study found that after controlling for various

characteristics (e.g. neighborhood, race, age, living alone, drug use), keeping a gun in

the home was strongly associated with an increased risk of homicide victimization.

Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate

acquaintance.

UNINTENTIONAL DEATHS

Wiebe DJ. Firearms in U.S. homes as a risk factor for unintentional gunshot fatality.

Accident Analysis and Prevention. 2003; 35: 711-16.

Major Findings: In this case-control study comparing subjects living in homes with guns

to those without (and adjusting for covariates), the relative risk for dying from an

unintentional gunshot injury was 3.7 times higher for adults living in homes with

guns. Having handguns in the home was associated with the largest effect estimates.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Firearm availability and unintentional firearm deaths,

suicide, and homicide among 5-14 year olds. Journal of Trauma. 2002; 52: 267-75.

Major Findings: The authors analyzed the relationship between firearm availability

and homicide, suicide, and unintentional gun death for 5-14 year olds across the 50

states over a ten year period. Children in states with many guns have elevated rates

of suicide, homicide, and unintentional gun deaths compared to children in states with

fewer guns. The state rates of non-firearm suicide and non-firearm homicide among

children are not related to firearm availability.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Firearm availability and unintentional firearm deaths.

Accident Analysis and Prevention. 2001; 33:477-84.

Major Findings: An analysis of data from 50 states over 19 years investigating the

relationship between gun prevalence and accidental gun deaths across different age

groups finds that for every age group, where there are more guns there are more

accidental deaths. The mortality rate was 7 times higher in the four states with the

most guns compared to the four states with the fewest guns.

GUN CARRYING

Donahue J. Guns, crime, and the impact of state right-to-carry laws. Fordham Law

Review. 2004; 73(2): 623-652.

Major Finding: This chapter reviews the literature on right-to-carry laws and their

relationship to murder, rape, assault, and property crimes such as robbery, burglary,

Harvard Injury Control Research Center February 22, 2005

5

and larceny. The author concludes that there is no evidence of reduction in violent or

property crime when right-to-carry laws are passed, and that if any association exists

between gun carrying and crime, it is that right-to-carry laws are linked to increases

in property crime.

Hepburn L, Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. The effect of non-discretionary concealed

weapon carrying laws on homicide. Journal of Trauma. 2004; 56(3): 676-681.

Major Findings: The authors analyzed the effect on homicide of changes in state-level

gun carrying laws using pooled cross-sectional time-series data for 50 states from

1979-1998. There was no statistically significant association between changes in

concealed carry laws and state homicide rates. The finding was consistent across a

variety of models.

Ludwig J. Concealed-gun-carrying laws and violent crime: Evidence from state panel

data. International Review of Law and Economics. 1998; 18(3):239-254.

Major Findings: This paper exploits the minimum age requirements for concealed-carry

permits to more effectively control for unobserved variables that may vary over time.

Since even permissive concealed-carry states have minimum age requirements, any

deterrent benefits from these laws should be concentrated among adults and, therefore,

should be reflected in a gap between adult and juvenile victimization rates. The results

suggest that shall-issue laws have resulted, if anything, in an increase in adult homicide

rates.

SELF-DEFENSE GUN USE

Hemenway D, Azrael D. The relative frequency of offensive and defensive gun use:

Results of a national survey. Violence and Victims. 2000; 15:257-272.

Major Findings: Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey, we

examined the extent and nature of offensive gun use. Firearms are used far more

often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense. All reported cases

of criminal gun use, as well as many of the so-called self-defense gun uses, appear to

be socially undesirable.

Hemenway D, Miller M, Azrael, D. Gun use in the United States: Results from two

national surveys. Injury Prevention. 2000; 6:263-267.

Major Findings: Criminal court judges who read the self-reported accounts of purported

self-defense gun use obtained from two national random-digit-dial surveys rated a

majority as being illegal, even assuming that the respondent had a permit to own and

to carry a gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly from his own

perspective.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center February 22, 2005

6

McDowall D, Loftin C, Presser S. Measuring civilian defensive firearm use: A

methodological experiment. Journal of Quantitative Criminology. 2000; 16:1-19.

Major Findings: Estimates of the incidence of victim gun use from the National Crime

Victimization Survey (NCVS) are consistently lower than are those from other

studies. To examine the divergence, we conducted a survey that gauged the impact of

methodological differences between the NCVS and the other studies. For half of the

sample, we asked questions from the NCVS, followed by questions from the other

surveys. For the other half of the sample, we presented the questions in the reverse

order. We examined two hypotheses: (1) survey methods account for the divergent

results, and (2) the questions cover unrelated activities. The results provided some

support for the first hypothesis, but respondents also reported many more defenses to

the questions from the other surveys than to the NCVS questions. Consistent with the

second hypothesis, this suggests that the NCVS and the other surveys measure

responses to largely different provocations.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center February 22, 2005

7

ADDITIONAL READING

Brent DA, Perper JA, Allman CJ, et al. The presence and accessibility of firearms in the

homes of adolescent suicides, a case-control study. JAMA. 1991; 266:2989-2995.

Cook PJ, Ludwig J. Defensive gun uses: New evidence from a national survey. J Quant

Criminol. 1998; 14(2): 111-131.

Donohue J. The impact of concealed-carry laws. In Ludwig J, Cook PJ, eds. Evaluating Gun

Policy. Washington D.C.: Brookings Institution press. 2003.

Hemenway D, Miller M. Gun threats against and self-defense gun use by California

adolescents. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine. 2004; 158: 395-400.

Kendell RE. Catalytic converters and prevention of suicides [research letter]. The Lancet.

1998; 352(9139): 1525.

Kreitman N. The coal gas story: UK suicide rates, 1960-71. Brit J Prev Soc Med. 1976;

30:86-93.

Sloan JH, Rivara FP, Reay DT, Ferris JA, Kellermann AL. Firearm regulations and rates of

suicide. A comparison of two metropolitan areas. N Engl J Med. 1990;322(6):369-73.

Webster DW, Vernick JS, Hepburn LM. Relationship between licensing, registration, and

other gun sales laws and the source of state of crime guns. Injury Prevention. 2001;

7:184-189.

Webster DW, Vernick JS, Zeoli AM, Manganello JA. Association between youth-focused

firearm laws and youth suicides. JAMA. 2004; 292(10):1178.

Wintemute GJ, Parham CA, Beaumont JJ, Wright M, Drake C. Mortality among recent

purchasers of handguns. N Engl J Med. 1999;341(21):1583-9.

For More Information

Contact: Mary Vriniotis, MS

Communications Liaison

Harvard Injury Control Research Center

(617)432-3271

www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc

Hey, great stuff!

But, you forgot to show the part of these studies where it shows that the guns were bought at Wal-Mart.

Must be in a different study?

t.

[ted]

your ARTICLES do not answer my request. here let me spell it out for you.

show me a source (a link will do) to where the U.S. ADMITTED TO TORTURE. that was your accusation. then you elaborated on that saying that the torture included pulling out fingernails and such.

and then show me a source that cites that legally obtained guns from WALMART are responsible in any way shape or form for the crime rate.

until you respond to those, i'm not interested in any articles you throw out here to try to confuse, confound, or distract from the issue.

for the sake of your OWN credibility, please show evidence to back up the claims you made.

__________________________________________________________________________

Here is this what you wanted?

The plaintiffs sued Wal-Mart for negligently selling a shotgun to James Michael White -- Ms. White's estranged husband -- who was under a domestic violence restraining order and was therefore prohibited from buying a firearm under federal law. On April 8, 1998, within two weeks of buying the shotgun, Mr. White used it to murder his estranged wife and her brother. Wal-Mart sold Mr. White the gun despite the fact that he filled out the federal purchase form truthfully, indicating that he was "subject to a court order restraining [him] from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner." As a result, federal law prohibited Mr. White from buying the gun. Nonetheless, after a Wal-Mart clerk and supervisor reviewed and signed the form, Mr. White was sold the murder weapon. Because of similar oversights, Wal-Mart has been sued repeatedly for negligent firearm sales, failure to properly train its gun sales staff, and negligent supervision.

I asked you for an example of where someone purchased a gun lawfully from a Wal-Mart store and killed someone. You gave an example of someone purchasing a gun in violation of the law. My point is that criminals will find a way to buy guns, regardless of the law.

LadyC are you for real? This person went in and purchased a gun at Walmart and killed two people. Did you read any of the stuff I sent you on guns?

One person bought a gun at Wal-Mart and killed people? This is the proof you offer?

One single person out of all murders in the States?

Surely there has to be more, right?

t.

[ted]

The lunatic fringe considers harsh interrogation techniques to be torture. Real torture is something VERY DIFFERENT than what the U.S. is doing with these terrorists.

Please remember the Geneva Conventions

Lunatic fringe? What you support is torture by every civilized standard that the US Constitution and the Geneva Conventions are based on.

When these fellows refuse to wear uniforms, they are DELIBERATELY endangering non combatants. I say they deserve whatever they get.

Who's they? Brown-skinned Arabs? Those your government says are bad guys?

The real lunatic fringe is turning the world against Christianity by their dishonest and psychotic behavior done in the name of Christ.

Actually, vex, they are the bad guys. I've fought them, and they really do want to hurt us.

It's not because our Government has declared them bad- they earned that title by being bad in the first place.

Finally, someone in our Government had the eggs to call them what they are in the first place.

The bad ones, that is......

t.