"The church" and "discussions in threads"

[kittylover0991]

I wouldn't be surprised if something happened with this thread one way or the other, but I find it interesting that so many "Christians" say "hey, we should be getting along! we have different opinions on doctrinal issues, but we shoudl get along as brothers and sisters in Christ"..... this is starting to drive me crazy... I am not pointing out one person in particular becuase I have recently done this same thing, even with the thought of leaving these boards. We promote ecumenalism and yet we wonder why we fight... We promote "non denominationalism" and yet we wonder why we fight about doctrinal issues and then say we shouldn't argue as brothers and sisters in Christs. That's like saying, "Let's feed the fire, and hope it goes out on it's own", but it doesn't work that way folks!

It is truly ridiculous that we sit here and argue, but at the same time, it as ridiculous to say "oh, we can all get along". Paul got onto the church of Corinth because they had "divisions among them" and same as we have hear. Yet, we expect each other to get along and agree. This sounds like an oxymoron to me...

[LadyRaven]

The problem comes in when the doctrinal disagreements cannot be resolved. When this happens we cannot really be non denominational.

I am firmly covenantal and believe the dispensational view to be entirely in error. I know that this is a reasonable disagreement (ie this is not a matter of heresy), but it will not be resolved because I'm not changing my view. I know that I'm right. I've studied the matter for years and used to hold the other view, was convinced I was wrong and changed. When it comes to things that we all can do together, like fellowship and joking and praying, we can of course be in agreement and get along. However I will never support anything which I believe to be false...even if it's not a matter of life or death (ie heresy). So what should one do?

Should I stop speaking? No.

Should I agree to disagree? Sure, but to a point this is sort of ludicrious too, because you can't just allow people to believe things which are wrong without some form of dissent.

Sometimes people must separate for the sake of unity. That sounds stupid but...isn't it best to acknowledge the division rather than try to force people together who cannot speak as one? For example...A baptist and a presbyterian can work together in unity to feed the hungry and works of compassion in a given area and agree on many things. However, when it comes to baptism, they are never going to agree. They should not bind themselves together in a congregation because they would not be in agreement and would have "divisions among them" unless one of them changed their mind.

When it comes to things like this, non denominationalism tends to fall apart. You may claim to not belong to a denomination in the effort to promote unity, however even then you are going to find issues you must distance yourself from because you firmly believe they are wrong. To say otherwise is to lie. Isn't it much more honest to be "interdenominational" and promote "unity among diversity" where we agree that we will not agree and that we can do so within a certain set of parameters (ie seperation from heresy) and still love and respect each other. It's not about being in complete agreement as much as having the love and respect, knowing that yes, even I can be wrong (take this in the half joking sarcasticly laced truism that it is). I doubt it, or I wouldn't hold to my beliefs, but it is possible. In the end Jesus will sort it all out. Until then my duty as a believer is to teach what I know to be true and do so in love. When we all do that, we will experience something special.

[vrjenny]

hmmmm....so we can't get along???

at the risk of sounding stupid....wouldn't promoting "non denominationalism" bring ppl into focus on the Truth...the Word of God....and not man made opinions?

I know you did not mention names...and i thank you for that... but with the timing of your post...it appears that my statements are "driving you crazy"...please forgive me for doing that! Didn't mean to push your "crazy" button

It is truly sad to find it ridiculous to say "let's get along"... i do not believe that we should all conform to on man's beliefs or opinions...the only one we should conform to is God.

I believe it is possible for ppl to have their own opinions and still show love, respect, and politeness to one another.

Funny you mentioned leaving...i, myself, have considered that very strongly.

Also...this "christian" sees it this way....which is more stronger...all coming together and working as a whole body to come against the enemy with Prayer and the power of God working through us....or trying to do that work with the parts of "the body" fighting the enemy and itself...trying to go in different directions thinking there is no use for the other parts of "the body"...or it is the stronger more superior part. Isn't it harder to do something with one arm...or one leg... for me...i will pray that we are able to "come together" and work in accord for the Lord and His glory.

The lost...people in authority...Government...President...our nation...all nations/countries need us to get our selves moving as one powerful (through God) body...praying and combating against the enemy.

Let me be the pinky toe....or the littlest finger... i don't mind.

In Christ, Jenny.

[InternalFlame]

I think the most important thing that is lacking sometimes is respect. If people respected that other people came to their opposing opinions for a good reason, and that it's not just because they're stupid, then there would be a lot less problems. I had a lot of respectful discussions with an athesist friend of mine, and because I respected his veiws as valid (valid in the way that I could fully understand why he came to see things that way), he in turn was open to hearing my veiws...and I eventually was able to lead him to Christ.

Pride is often the downfall of many discussions. Many will go into it with the attitude that they are right and must convince all of the poor dimwits of the truth. We have to go into a discussion with the attitude that we may be wrong, and that we should hear other people out. The biggest problem is that people get carried away, and start to become insulting, or attack others. This is when things go downhill. If we kept it clean, it would be as it should be: a learning experience. Yes, in some cases you will be the one in the right, but if the other person refuses to see that, give them time. Maybe it isn't you who will be able to convince them. We are to plant seeds, not force a flower into full bloom within an hour.

That, respectfully, is my veiw on the matter Anyone else have a different take on it they'd like to share?

[LadyRaven]

hmmmm....so we can't get along???

at the risk of sounding stupid....wouldn't promoting "non denominationalism" bring ppl into focus on the Truth...the Word of God....and not man made opinions?

The doctrines of men are just doctrines which are not correct, ergo...non denominationalism does not protect you from them. the person who is trying to unite with you could very well hold to them.

Correct doctrine is God's doctrine and I believe with all my being my doctrine is correct. Therefore if I believe I'm correct I'm going to say that the doctrines I disagree with are the doctrines of men. If I didn't believe I had God's truth, don't you think I'd leave it behind?

[LadyRaven]

I think the most important thing that is lacking sometimes is respect. If people respected that other people came to their opposing opinions for a good reason, and that it's not just because they're stupid, then there would be a lot less problems. I had a lot of respectful discussions with an athesist friend of mine, and because I respected his veiws as valid (valid in the way that I could fully understand why he came to see things that way), he in turn was open to hearing my veiws...and I eventually was able to lead him to Christ.

Pride is often the downfall of many discussions. Many will go into it with the attitude that they are right and must convince all of the poor dimwits of the truth. We have to go into a discussion with the attitude that we may be wrong, and that we should hear other people out. The biggest problem is that people get carried away, and start to become insulting, or attack others. This is when things go downhill. If we kept it clean, it would be as it should be: a learning experience. Yes, in some cases you will be the one in the right, but if the other person refuses to see that, give them time. Maybe it isn't you who will be able to convince them. We are to plant seeds, not force a flower into full bloom within an hour.

That, respectfully, is my veiw on the matter Anyone else have a different take on it they'd like to share?

The only thing I would add is that you can fully believe yourself to be correct and still not believe the persons you are disagreeing with are dimwits. There is more to pride than believing yourself correct.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I think the most important thing that is lacking sometimes is respect. If people respected that other people came to their opposing opinions for a good reason, and that it's not just because they're stupid, then there would be a lot less problems. I had a lot of respectful discussions with an athesist friend of mine, and because I respected his veiws as valid (valid in the way that I could fully understand why he came to see things that way), he in turn was open to hearing my veiws...and I eventually was able to lead him to Christ.

Pride is often the downfall of many discussions. Many will go into it with the attitude that they are right and must convince all of the poor dimwits of the truth. We have to go into a discussion with the attitude that we may be wrong, and that we should hear other people out. The biggest problem is that people get carried away, and start to become insulting, or attack others. This is when things go downhill. If we kept it clean, it would be as it should be: a learning experience. Yes, in some cases you will be the one in the right, but if the other person refuses to see that, give them time. Maybe it isn't you who will be able to convince them. We are to plant seeds, not force a flower into full bloom within an hour.

That, respectfully, is my veiw on the matter Anyone else have a different take on it they'd like to share?

Thank you for speaking the truth. I needed to hear that today, because my attitude needed an adjustment.

Thank you again! I really do appreciate it.

[vrjenny]

hmmmm....so we can't get along???

at the risk of sounding stupid....wouldn't promoting "non denominationalism" bring ppl into focus on the Truth...the Word of God....and not man made opinions?

The doctrines of men are just doctrines which are not correct, ergo...non denominationalism does not protect you from them. the person who is trying to unite with you could very well hold to them.

Correct doctrine is God's doctrine and I believe with all my being my doctrine is correct. Therefore if I believe I'm correct I'm going to say that the doctrines I disagree with are the doctrines of men. If I didn't believe I had God's truth, don't you think I'd leave it behind?

my post was more to the OP...and in response to your question ...yes.

[InternalFlame]

I think the most important thing that is lacking sometimes is respect. If people respected that other people came to their opposing opinions for a good reason, and that it's not just because they're stupid, then there would be a lot less problems. I had a lot of respectful discussions with an athesist friend of mine, and because I respected his veiws as valid (valid in the way that I could fully understand why he came to see things that way), he in turn was open to hearing my veiws...and I eventually was able to lead him to Christ.

Pride is often the downfall of many discussions. Many will go into it with the attitude that they are right and must convince all of the poor dimwits of the truth. We have to go into a discussion with the attitude that we may be wrong, and that we should hear other people out. The biggest problem is that people get carried away, and start to become insulting, or attack others. This is when things go downhill. If we kept it clean, it would be as it should be: a learning experience. Yes, in some cases you will be the one in the right, but if the other person refuses to see that, give them time. Maybe it isn't you who will be able to convince them. We are to plant seeds, not force a flower into full bloom within an hour.

That, respectfully, is my veiw on the matter Anyone else have a different take on it they'd like to share?

Thank you for speaking the truth. I needed to hear that today, because my attitude needed an adjustment.

Thank you again! I really do appreciate it.

Don't thank me, thank God Any words of truth were from the Holy Spirit working through me. I'm glad that those words could help you

The only thing I would add is that you can fully believe yourself to be correct and still not believe the persons you are disagreeing with are dimwits. There is more to pride than believing yourself correct.

Ladyraven, you are right there. Although it does seem that the people who cause the most problems are the ones who think everyone else is stupid for having a different opinion...

[kittylover0991]

no vrjenny,

it is not you who "pushed my crazy button" lol I like that term by the way Also yes, I did start to read your post before I started this thread lol but it's been in my mind for a while and I just haven't really wanted to post it for whatever reason. But it something that greatly irritates me. I am not saying that people can't get along and shouldn't respect each other because of doctrinal differences. But what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to try and say that a bunch of people of different doctrines (either of God or of the devil) and expect them to mix .... I know the last thing I want to hear is that my beliefs are of the devil, but to say that to someone is then highly offensiee and obviously, people take it offensivly... It is somethign really really hard to work out and I think it is almost pointless to try with this.... I don't know.... what can I say? I believe in unity OF DOCTRINE....