Matthew 16:24 conflict

[Yahsway]

Amen and Amen cardcaptor,

we worship Jesus and him alone. Not an icon or relic. The cross in those days was the emblem of the Babylonians who worshipped Tammuz, the cross-god. But crosses have been around for many years before Jesus and they have absolutely nothing to do with God or His Christ.

The phrase "pick up your cross and follow Jesus" does not mean to pick up your cross and worship it. The cross was an emblem of suffering and shame.

In the 15th century B.C.E. the Vestal Virgins of pagan Rome wore crosses around their necks and the Egyptians as well. The Buddhists and numerous other sects in India also used the sign of the cross as a mark on their foreheads. The cross was also widely worshipped or regarded as a sacred emblem of Bacchus, the Babylonian Messiah, for he is represented with a head-band covered with crosses.

In the 1945 Encyclopedia Americana states

"The symbol of the cross was used thruout the world since the later Stone Age; Greek pre-Christian crosses were the tau and swastika; the cross first became a symbol of Christianity during the reign of Constantine."

The 1965 World book Encyclopedia vol. VII states-

"Cross forms were used as symbols, religious or otherwise, long before the Christian era in almost every part of the world. This symbol had a wide diffusion before the Christian era in Europe, Asia, and America, and is commonly thought to have been an emblem of the sun or fire; and hence of life."

[Floatingaxe]

The Cross was a symbol for God..the tabernacle was set up in a cross-like fashion, the blood over the door lintel was a cross formation.

Ask God why He used the CROSS as a component in some of His design, and designations! He alone knew the beginning and the end, Jesus was right there. The CROSS is woven into everything. Just because the word was never used, it is there. There in the tabernacle, and there at the Passover.

[eric]

Goodness me!! Shiloh's explanation is as near as you will ever get to the truth about the cross and it's implications. Yashway and cardcaptor, no one is suggeting that christians should worship or give glory to the cross, but we should worship the glory for the time when we can lay the cross down, and exchange it one day for a crown. Is "the old rugged cross" not up-beat enough for you to sing in your church?

[Yahsway]

Eric, Shilohs explanation was a good one and cardcaptors also.

No, I do not care for the song "The Old Rugged Cross" as I do not worship a piece of wood. Now on the other hand I do worship the One who died for me on the stake.

Although you might try asking a Muslim or a Jewish person how they view the "cross symbol" as history records how the crusaders killed them in the name of Christ, wearing that red cross symbol on their shields and uniforms. Im sure its not a "wonderous attraction" for them.

The "cross" yes an emblem, symbol, of suffering and shame for many who died on it.

My point being I do not worship the cross, I worship Jesus. For He was sinless, spotless, Lamb of God, and He took my place for I deserved to die on that cross.

And in doing what He did, I worship and praise Him forever. But the "cross", the emblem, the symbol, has been used in a vile way by some who claimed to be followers of Christ.

The emblem, the symbol of Jesus is the "lampstand" called the Menorah. Rev 1:12 is clearly associated with the menorah because He is standing in the center of 7 golden lampstands.

Rev 1:20 the menorah is the 7 congregations, His body. Rev 2:5 He threatens to remove His menorah(Himself, The light) from the congegation at Ephesus. So to me the sign, the emblem of the Son of Man is a Menorah, not a cross.

The 7 branches of the Menorah represents 7 days of the week, 7 annual appointed times, 7 congregations, the 7th millennia. The 7th millenium rest. It represents the Tree of Life of whom Jesus is that Life.

[eric]

Yahsway.

No, I do not care for the song "The Old Rugged Cross" as I do not worship a piece of wood. Now on the other hand I do worship the One who died for me on the stake.

Read my post again and you will notice that I said I dont expct anyone to worship a piece of wood. So keep your shirt on mate, cuz if there hadn,nt the cross at Calvary, you would be going to hell like the rest of us.

[Yahsway]

Amen Eric! I agree

[Yahsway]

Christopher John, Peter stated in 1 Peter 2:24 "who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the Tree.

Okay, Look at what Vines Expository Dictionary (which I used at Trevecca Nazarene College) has to say .

The Cross, Crucify

Greek-Stauros(Noun)

Denotes primarily, "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross."

The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the SYMBOL of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the inital of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt.

By the middle of the 3rd century A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were recieved into the churches apart from the regeneration of faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols.

Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with cross piece lowered, was ADOPTED to stand for the cross of Christ.

As for the Chi or X, which Constantine declared he had seen in a vision leading him to champion the Christian faith, the letter was the inital for the word "Christ" and had nothing to do with the "cross" (for xulon, "a timber beam, a tree," as used for the Stauros, see under TREE).

This is the dictionary we used, and there were others as well.

Christs body was lifted up and wounded, NOT the object He hung on. And for the record, I have seen many people wear the cross symbol as a neckless who are far from living the Christian life by the fruits I have seen. You may see many such people on television progroms that are really not fit for a Christian to view. Maybe you have seen them too. Just because someone wears a cross necless or pin doesnt mean they are sold out to Jesus.