I Samuel 19:9

[Guest Teri]

I Samuel 19:9 The an evil spirit of the LORD came upon Saul while he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, and David was playing the lyre.

Can anyone explain this? Also I have heard it often said that when spiritists call upon the dead of loved ones it is demons that come forth and impersonate the supposed loved ones. But in I Samuel 28:15 after Saul used a witch to bring forth Samuel it says. Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

I only ask because these things go against what I formerly believed. So can anyone of you guys help me divide this properly?

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[whatsitmean]

It is evident from the opening chapter of Job that the Lord does command evil spirits and they are answerable to Him.

If it was indeed the spirit of Samuel that was summoned, which is controversial, it would be an exception. The prediction of this spirit concerning Saul's death seems to be only partly correct in that they did all die the same day but apparently not the day that was foretold. Further it was not all of Saul's sons that died. Ishbosheth was left at home, being unfit for battle. From that, I would tend toward the spirit being an imposter.

[Guest Teri]

Whatitmean, I Samuel 28:12 Then the woman recognized Samuel, and she shrieked loudly, and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" Reading the entire thing I can't get anywhere in going with an imposter theory, the scripture looks clear that it is Samuel.

In the first chapter of Job it is Satan who asks if he may go and hurt Job. God allows it but does not send an evil spirit upon Jobs life. Theres a very significant difference there.

To tell you the truth I just noticed these scriptures yesturday, I don't know why I didn't see them as pertinent before. But it does challenge what I thought were facts before. I'm just seeing if anyone knows anything about this.

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[OneAccord]

Another scripture along these lines is found in 2 Chronicles 18:20-22:

(Here we have a glimpse of the throneroom with all the host of heaven standing on God's right and left hand, through the prohet Micaiah):

Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, "I will persuade him." The Lord said to him, "In what way?"

So he said "I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets [Ahab's, that is] " And the Lord said, "You shall persuade him and also prevail, go out and do so."

Therefore, look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you!"

This is very sticky ground theologically. It goes along with the question of 'did God create evil?' which we had a long meaty thread about a while ago by that same title.

We could also look at the way God hardened Pharoah's heart, and blinded the eyes and closed the ears of the Jews to accomplish His purpose.

It seems that God will use what we consider evil or lying spirits to carry out His divine will on earth. It makes no sense to us, and we would say, that's not fair

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It is true God did harden pharaohs heart but only after pharaoh had hardened his heart against God twice by himself.

Exodus 8

8Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, "Entreat the LORD that He may take away the frogs from me and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may sacrifice to the LORD."

9And Moses said to Pharaoh, "Accept the honor of saying when I shall intercede for you, for your servants, and for your people, to destroy the frogs from you and your houses, that they may remain in the river only."

10So he said, "Tomorrow." And he said, "Let it be according to your word, that you may know that there is no one like the LORD our God. 11And the frogs shall depart from you, from your houses, from your servants, and from your people. They shall remain in the river only."

12Then Moses and Aaron went out from Pharaoh. And Moses cried out to the LORD concerning the frogs which He had brought against Pharaoh. 13So the LORD did according to the word of Moses. And the frogs died out of the houses, out of the courtyards, and out of the fields. 14They gathered them together in heaps, and the land stank. 15But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the LORD had said.

Note it says that he (pharaoh) hardened his heart.

Exodus 8

28So Pharaoh said, "I will let you go, that you may sacrifice to the LORD your God in the wilderness; only you shall not go very far away. Intercede for me."

29Then Moses said, "Indeed I am going out from you, and I will entreat the LORD, that the swarms of flies may depart tomorrow from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people. But let Pharaoh not deal deceitfully anymore in not letting the people go to sacrifice to the LORD."

30So Moses went out from Pharaoh and entreated the LORD. 31And the LORD did according to the word of Moses; He removed the swarms of flies from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people. Not one remained. 32But Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go.

Once again here we see pharaoh after being given a second chance hardened his heart again against the will of God. Pharaoh was in total rebellion against the will of God.

Exodus 9

8 So the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Take for yourselves handfuls of ashes from a furnace, and let Moses scatter it toward the heavens in the sight of Pharaoh. 9And it will become fine dust in all the land of Egypt, and it will cause boils that break out in sores on man and beast throughout all the land of Egypt." 10Then they took ashes from the furnace and stood before Pharaoh, and Moses scattered them toward heaven. And they caused boils that break out in sores on man and beast. 11And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils, for the boils were on the magicians and on all the Egyptians. 12But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Now we see God deciding to keep pharaohs heart hard to complete the series of signs, to leave no one in doubt that it was God himself who was freeing the Jews from Egypt. Pharaoh was already lost, God chose to use him for his greater plan. By pharaohs stiff necked rebellion he made himself available to God to be used as a vessel of Gods wrath.

We read in Romans.

Romans 1

21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Here we see God giving them up to uncleanness again. So that they are now vessels of His wrath. Can you see that the first phase of this was their own actions detailed in verses 21,22 and 23.

So God gives over people who will not come to him to debased minds. We can see this happening today in our own societies that are falling away from the Word of God.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Evil didn't come about until satan tried to take over God and brought 1/3 of the angels with him. Until that moment there was no evil mentioned so I don['t think God created it.

[Guest Teri]

I'm sorry maybe I'm being difficult, but I already know about people being given over to their own lusts. What I want to know is does the Lord have evil spirits He uses for His purposes? Read the scripture it clearly says evil spirits of the Lord. The Lord sent a lying spirit upon someone in 2 Chronicles, and the scripture in I Samuel very clearly says it was Samuel who came up from the grave. It just has never dawned on me that God would use any evil spirits against us, I always thought by our own behaviors we invited them in. I'm not asking whether or not God created evil, I'm asking if God has evil spirits in His employ so to speak to use for His own purposes, and how is it that Samuel was brought back from death or the spirit realm if that is impossible?

In Yeshua's love

Teri

[OneAccord]

Wouldn't we all like to know some certain answers to these questions!

I certainly don't know, but I have to just trust that our God is Holy and Just and Pure. I have to remember that His ways are not our ways, and His ways are higher than our ways. He has an eternal perspective on things, we see through a glass darkly. He does things that seem unfair to us to accomplish a higher purpose than our own little worldly purposes.

You ask a very legitimate question, and one that no man truly has the answer to. We are all waiting for that day when all will be revealed, and we can make a little more sense out of all this.

[traveller]

Teri, I hear what you are saying sis. I have found that we have to just trust Him, that His ways are not ours.

Remember Job - did God use evil for His purpose then? Was it not the enemy that used his own desire, along with God's permission, to test Job? The enemy roams around like a roaring lion, seeking to kill and destroy. Were it not for the restraining arm of the Lord, there would be no earth. Along those lines, do we also say that the Lord sends the evil out to destroy the world? No. Does evil also have free will?

Another scripture along these lines is found in 2 Chronicles 18:20-22:

(Here we have a glimpse of the throneroom with all the host of heaven standing on God's right and left hand, through the prohet Micaiah):

Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, "I will persuade him." The Lord said to him, "In what way?"

So he said "I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets [Ahab's, that is] " And the Lord said, "You shall persuade him and also prevail, go out and do so."

Therefore, look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you!"

Teri, I think the Lord works all things to His plan. If that's too simplistic an answer, I apologize. It's the only way my mind can comprehend it.

[traveller]

Sorry OA! We posted at the same time and said about the same thing!