I Samuel 19:9

[Adstar]

But, Adstar, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was already there before Adam and Eve chose to partake of it.

Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Good reply OA

I need to pray on this. Thanks for that.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

[jesussaves]

"And when the devil had ended all the temptation..."

Luke 4:13

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man; but every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed." James 1:13-14

There is the evil that comes from sin.

"...a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination..." Acts 16:16

Demonic possession is very real. Paul rebuked this one, Jesus set the man possessed with a legion free. These are evil spirits. We have the authority in Jesus name to set people free from these.

Witchcraft, idolatry, satanic worship, divination and so on is very real and the Lord hates it.

The Lord calls unbelief a spirit of evil.

Our God is love. He is patient beyond what we can comprehend. Since the time of creation He has blessed His people. Yet, we see all through the Old Testiment of how their rebellion caused them to loose out on the blessings. Just like in the days of Noah, people would not believe and they were destroyed. Often we see the things the Lord calls evil being used in judgment.

The Lord moves in mysterious ways. Who can possibly know them all? But we know we can trust Him to be the Potter and yield ourselves to Him because we are His clay. He loves us so much He sent us Jesus to die in our place. He gave us His Word for correction...

"Come children, hearken unto me; I will teach you the fear of the Lord...The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and His ears are open to their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth." Psalms 34:11,15-16

"Evil shall slay the wicked, and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate." Psalms 34:21

"The Lord redeems the soul of His servants, and none of them that trust Him shall be desolate." Psalms 34:22

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

[Guest shiloh357]

I would like to respectfully point out that the word "evil" as used in Isaiah 45:7 is not a reference to moral evil, or sin, it is a reference to disasters. This is supported by the Hebrew. The New Living Translation says it this way:

"I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times. I, the Lord, am the one who does these things." Isaiah 45:7 A good example of what this verse is talking about is the plagues God put upon the Egyptians. As long as you are not saying that God creates murder, child molestation, rape, theft, bank fraud, etc., you are OK. We simply must make the distinction between "evil" as used in this verse to speak of natural disasters, or calamity, and sin. The latter was NOT created by God. For anyone to assert that God created sin, they are teaching heresy. Sin already existed when Adam was created. In fact, the Bible, to the best of my knowledge, does not mention sin as a created thing. Sin is the perversion of the Will of God. Sin is rebellion against God. Sin is comitted, not created.

Speaking prophetically, God in Ezekiel 28:1-15 speaks of Satan being perfect until sin was found in him. It says that Satan was the anointed cherub living in the Garden of Eden upon the mount of God. It does not say that God created the sin of Satan's pride, nor does it say that Satan created it. Sin finds its origin here. God did not create Satan sinful, Satan allowed himself to end up that way.

[OneAccord]

Shilo, it would seem then that sin is some kind of imperfection or malfunction or failure on God's part. Since God is perfect, holy and just, how did sin come to exist at all if not intentionally on the part of the Creator for His purpose? It seems to be some sort of malignant defect that affects the whole creation.

[Guest shiloh357]

The presence of sin is not a failure or malfunction on God's part. God cannot even look at sin, much less create it. For God to create sin, he must have a measure of sin in Him. To suggest that such would be true, is incorrect; for God is sinless according to Scripture.

"The origin of sin is a mystery, and must for ever remain such to us. It is plain that for some reason God has permitted sin to enter this world, and that is all we know. His permitting it, however, in no way makes God the author of sin." Easton's Bible Dictionary

The Bible says that Jesus was the lamb considered slain before the foundation of the world. God knew that sin would arise. Nothing takes Him by surprise. So, God had a plan in place to deal with it. He sent Jesus to deal with the sin issue.

You are correct on one thing. Sin is a malignant defect that affects the whole creation. Scripture does attest to that. For the whole creation is groaning in anticipation of the final phase of redemption.

It is incorrect to say that God is author of murder, child abuse, rape, abortion, etc. Such claisms go against what Scripture reveals about His character. To say that such things might have a place in His will is a very dangerous position to hold. With all due respect , such assertions are bordering on blasphemy.

[Guest Mudfly]

Regarding the origin of evil...a couple things....

The Bible is very clear that after the 6th day of creation, all that had been created was not just good, but "very good". Now, this would imply that when God stepped back and looked over all He had created, it was all exceedingly good, or pure.

Now this would imply, that evil's origin came sometime 'after' this point, for if it had existed during the 6 days of creation, then all could not have been 'very good'. (Or could it?)

Doesn't Scripture also say, in regards to Lucifer, that "iniquity" was found in him? The word found would imply it was always there. (Or would it?)

There is a verse in Isaiah (KJV) that says specifically that "I God create evil..." I will find the verse and post it later but I concur it needs to be read in context. (I'm at work so looking up scripture is sometimes difficult.)

In Him,

Mudfly

"I want nothing to do with religion, but I want everything to do with Jesus Christ."

[Guest shiloh357]

Mudfly

The word for

"evil" in Isaiah 45:7 where God says that "I create evil," is the word in Hebrew for disaster, or calamity. It is not talking about moral evil, i.e. sin. God did not create sin.

[OneAccord]

I would have to agree with Easton's comment that 'origin of sin is a mystery'. We could go round and round and still not come to defintive conclusions. It seems more of a matter of settling within your self the cause and purpose of suffering.

Mudfly, yours was a very thoughtful post and I would add for the sake of discussion that in Genesis 1 God said "Let there be light" and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.Now notice that He did not call the darkness good.

Then look at 1 Thessalonians 5:5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of the darkness.

Is it possible that evil/sin was in existence already at this time in the darkness and the night?

Shiloh says:

It is incorrect to say that God is author of murder, child abuse, rape, abortion, etc. Such claisms go against what Scripture reveals about His character. To say that such things might have a place in His will is a very dangerous position to hold. With all due respect , such assertions are bordering on blasphemy.

OA responds:

Yes, this is what I wrestle with. There are several occasions in the Old Testament of God ordering His people to slash open pregnant women's bellies, to dash the little babies against stones, to murder every man, woman, and child, even the livestock. These verses are very challenging. I don't believe such violence is God's will for mankind, but the Bible seems to portray Him as willing to use brutal means to accomplish His purpose.

[Guest shadow2b]

-- I don't believe such violence is God's will for mankind, but the Bible seems to portray Him as willing to use brutal means to accomplish His purpose.

Compelling statements ONE ---uhhhh??? I may be wrong??BUT perhaps GOD has stated in several

instances that there are "some" sins that are absolutely SO VILE they must be wiped off the face

of the earth & that if they weren't those acts would entrap ISRAEL in them which did happen

several times when GOD'S orders were NOT followed EXACTLY----Wasn't it king Saul that GOD sent

SAmuel to & told him to "WIPEOUT" the entire kingdom of king ahab or Agag-& Saul kept the other

king alive & kept all the good cattle-sheep- {to offer GOD as a sacrifice when GOD called him on it}

And Samuel told saul that since he had rejected the word Samuel gave him that by rejecting

samuel & the word from GOD that saul had in reality rejected GOD & GOD had rejected saul from

being king over ISRAEL????----Hope i got all that right---Which this one act of disobedience caused

more problems later on between SAUL & DAVID the future king over ISRAEL-& Sauls son jonathan

defied his fathers orders to have David killed{which caused jonathan & Davids hearts to become

knitted together}They became as brothers--"that" is brotherly love--agape love in action---imho---

SO what we may look at as"brutal" is not when the innocent unborn babies were protected{in

death}from being subjected to & involved in the despicable sins IF they had been allowed to be

born or those innocent babies already born but had not been subjected to those abominations

before GOD ordered ALL-men-women-children--babies to be destroyed......uhhhhh???do that make

any sense at all????? I think I'll stop rambling now i've pretty well confused myself so it must be

time to shadddduuppp---------GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTHSEEKERS-----totally confused--Gary--

[Guest Mudfly]

"The word for "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 where God says that "I create evil," is the word in Hebrew for disaster, or calamity. It is not talking about moral evil, i.e. sin. God did not create sin. "

Thank you for pointing out the verse I was looking for Shiloh. After looking up this verse in other translations I did see where the word 'calamity' had been substituted for the word 'evil'. It definitely has to be read in context.

I am not saying that God did create evil. What I struggle with is the fact that the Bible states nothing was created but by God. Everything was created by Him. Now...therefore, does SIN fall into the everything category? How can SIN belong without being created or having a starting point? (*scratches head*)

"God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.Now notice that He did not call the darkness good."

Good point OA...but I still believe that darkness wasn't "bad" at this point. Just in leu of Scripture stating all of creation was "very good" at the end of creation.

Another point to ponder, if all was very good, does this mean Satan had not fallen yet?

Mudfly