Is Jesus who He said He is?

[undone]

With all the different arguments, points and counterpoints hashed out here, it's easy to lose focus on the single most important, and some would argue the ONLY truly important issue.

You could spend the rest of your life arguing floods, six days, Joshua's long day, semantics...etc. It's all about the promised Savior.

Is Jesus who He said He is?

There are entire books written on this topic so I don't know that we can hash everything out here in a cohesive, non-offensive way. But it IS the question.

If He is, then all we need to do is what He asks and we will be saved. There's no other work to do. There's only a freely offered gift.

Is there anyone here who would turn down a FREE GIFT? One of the most powerful words in marketing is FREE. Another is NEW. The NEW testament offers a NEW life and it's FREE to anyone who asks.

Are the claims of Christ anything that we can trust? If so, how and why?

Who DID He say he is and how did HE prove it?

If we can honestly assess this and conclude its reasonably true, can we simply recognize our need for a Savior due our sin and accept this FREE gift?

I'll start, let's talk about the resurrection. What evidence does the bible offer that can lead someone to conclude this event occurred?

First, there's the testimony of the apostles, the Mary's, the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and the 500 who witnessed His ascension. In a court of law, it only takes two witness corraburate a claim.

There was the fact that the Jew's never make the claim that the tomb wasn't empty. There's nobody who denies the emptiness of the tomb.

There's the sealed tomb with a Roman guard around it. It is unlikely anyone was able to move a huge stone, even if the guards were asleep, without getting the attention of the guards. The Roman penalty for sleeping at your post was death. On top of that, they were aware that this was the day that the disciples were to expect the resurrection. It seems the Romans would have been particularly prepared to guard the tomb on this night.

I'll stop there and let your responses continue the discussion.

[Natt]

Also there are all the prophecies that was fulfilled in the coming of Christ.

His birth date in Daniel 9 :25-26

His birth place in Micah 5:2

There is a prophecy of him being born of a virgin

and how he dies is given in incredible detail in Isaiah 52-53.

This includes the prophecy of he died with robbers

There are hundreds more.

I find it hard to believe that these could just happen by chance. But then I'm not an evolutionist.

[undone]

Also there are all the prophecies that was fulfilled in the coming of Christ.

His birth date in Daniel 9 :25-26

His birth place in Micah 5:2

There is a prophecy of him being born of a virgin

and how he dies is given in incredible detail in Isaiah 52-53.

This includes the prophecy of he died with robbers

There are hundreds more.

I find it hard to believe that these could just happen by chance. But then I'm not an evolutionist.

Fullfilled prophecy is a good one.

I know there are some ongoing threads that talk about some of these.

Okay,

Let's talk about him "calling His own shot" to borrow a baseball term. Jesus prophesies several times in the gospels, way before the events, how He was to die, and by whom.

Thanks for your reply Natt.

btw-Not to be picky or anything but mostly to avoid an evolution debate on this thread, someone who gives some merit to evolution doesn't mean they don't believe in Christ.

I know what you're trying to say.

Edited November 12, 2006 by undone

[Natt]

btw-Not to be picky or anything but mostly to avoid an evolution debate on this thread, someone who gives some merit to evolution doesn't mean they don't believe in Christ.

I know what you're trying to say.

Sorry

Good Topic though.

[undone]

Here's another, the gospel account happened in a real place at a definite time in history. There are people who operate Worthy Ministries in Jerusalem, who could walk out their doors right now and take you to the temple mount, Bethlehem, Nazareth, Samaria, the pool of Siloam (sp?) and the list can go on and on.

The Gospels reference real places, real historical events occuring around them, and real people. Archeaologists have found verifiable artifacts that date to the time of Jesus, that show inscriptions of the names of Pontius Pilate and Caiphus. There are probably others that I'm missing and you are certainly welcome to post them.

[TheProcess]

Are the claims of Christ anything that we can trust? If so, how and why?

Who DID He say he is and how did HE prove it?

If we can honestly assess this and conclude its reasonably true, can we simply recognize our need for a Savior due our sin and accept this FREE gift?

I'll start, let's talk about the resurrection. What evidence does the bible offer that can lead someone to conclude this event occurred?

First, there's the testimony of the apostles, the Mary's, the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and the 500 who witnessed His ascension. In a court of law, it only takes two witness corraburate a claim.

There was the fact that the Jew's never make the claim that the tomb wasn't empty. There's nobody who denies the emptiness of the tomb.

There's the sealed tomb with a Roman guard around it. It is unlikely anyone was able to move a huge stone, even if the guards were asleep, without getting the attention of the guards. The Roman penalty for sleeping at your post was death. On top of that, they were aware that this was the day that the disciples were to expect the resurrection. It seems the Romans would have been particularly prepared to guard the tomb on this night.

I'll stop there and let your responses continue the discussion.

I think we should judge Jesus on Biblical criteria. Would you agree with that?

[1] Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

[2] If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

[3] and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

[4] you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

[5] You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.

[6] And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.

(Deuteronomy 13:1-6 Judaica Press Tanach)

We aren't supposed to follow someone merely because they can provide a "sign" or "wonder". God may be testing the Jewish people apparently. So was Jesus really resurrected? Whatever the case, on Biblical criteria, it doesn't necessarily make him a prophet or Messiah or whatever else.

According to the Bible, what criteria should we actually use to judge Jesus?

Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.... You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments

Christians have dumped God's law haven't they? I know they like to say "fulfilled", but it isn't being followed by Christians is it?

Jesus -- or at least the Christian religion -- is looking as guilty as it gets on this criteria.

"Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them"

Obviously Christians think that they do worship the Jewish God. But the worship of Jesus and a Trinity God is seen as idolatry in Judaism. On this criteria, Christianity is (at least) looking suspect isn't it?

Another criteria we should consider:

[21] Now if you say to yourself, "How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?"

[22] If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.

(Deuteronomy 18:21-22 Judaica Press Tanach)

Did Jesus give false prophecy? Well I recently quoted the Christian apologist C.S. Lewis admitting that Jesus did indeed give false prophecy. Doesn't look good does it?

[Guest man]

Is Jesus who He said He is?

Yes.

[Guest man]

Well I recently quoted the Christian apologist C.S. Lewis admitting that Jesus did indeed give false prophecy. Doesn't look good does it?

You don't believe...so what do you care?

[TheProcess]

Well I recently quoted the Christian apologist C.S. Lewis admitting that Jesus did indeed give false prophecy. Doesn't look good does it?

You don't believe...so what do you care?

Don't believe what? That Jesus was a false prophet? I certainly believe that the Jesus of the Bible was a false prophet.

[undone]

Well I recently quoted the Christian apologist C.S. Lewis admitting that Jesus did indeed give false prophecy. Doesn't look good does it?

You don't believe...so what do you care?

Don't believe what? That Jesus was a false prophet? I certainly believe that the Jesus of the Bible was a false prophet.

Okay, We have one vote for Jesus being a false prophet based on a C.S. Lewis quote that could or could not be taken in context.

Next...

Edited November 13, 2006 by undone