TheProcess Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2006 Just wondering....still Do you like Industrial? http://www.amazon.com/Process-Skinny-Puppy...TF8&s=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,911 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Online Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Just wondering....still Do you like Industrial? http://www.amazon.com/Process-Skinny-Puppy...TF8&s=music Clicked on your link, Process....all I got was a blank page, and the bar at the bottom said 'Done' None the wiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2006 The Bible says that there is no remssion of sin without the shedding of blood. Could you point us to where it says this in the Old Testament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2006 Clicked on your link, Process....all I got was a blank page, and the bar at the bottom said 'Done' None the wiser The link works for me. Try again perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetycakes Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 162 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,911 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Online Birthday: 03/23/1964 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Clicked on your link, Process....all I got was a blank page, and the bar at the bottom said 'Done' None the wiser The link works for me. Try again perhaps. Did try it again...works for me, also....must have been gremlins. Sorry, I thought that because you were classed as an unbeliever, your name indicated that you were a member of the satanic cult known as 'The Process Church of the Final Judgement' My apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Nov 17 2006, 05:47 PM) It is absolutely relevant, because I am explaining that Christians were not commanded to live as Jews, and therefore they are not "dumping" something that was never their's to start with. Christianity does not reject or repudiate the law, as I said, we strive to obey it commandments. The problem is that you brought up the dietary laws to prove that Christians "dumped" the law, and it is simply not a good example. You are trying to dodge the truth that Christians do still read the OT, preach from it, and seek to live according to the portions of it that are relevant to the Christian life. Many Christians on their own, DO keep the dietary commandments as a matter of their own personal choice, they celebrate the Feasts of Israel, and so forth. That Christians were commanded anything is question-begging. There are over 1,000 commandments given to Christians in the New Testament. The issue here is whether Christianity is consistent with how the Old Testament God behaves. Please try and give a relevant reply on this point. It depends on whether you are talking about the modern "instutional" church, as I refer to it, or New Testament Christianity. There is a difference. There are plenty of people who consider themsevles "Christians" solely because they attend church and mentally assent to the "Christian religion." There is a difference between a person who merely follows the religion, and someone who has a true, living relationship with Jesus Christ. Biblical Christianity is birthed out of the Old Testament. The New Testament is written in the terminology and language of the Festivals and the sacrificial system. Christians have not dumped the OT per se, but most understand the difference between what was commanded to the Jewish people, and what is commanded to the Church. Christians still consider the OT relevant as a moral code, and even in the ceremonial aspects it maintains relevance because the Festivals, the Tabernacle structure and it's contents, the sacrifices and other services, the Priesthood/High Priest, all point to Jesus, and they all tell the story of redemption. Biblical Christianity is born out of all of that. All of those things, while not given to the Christian as a commandment to perform, still maintain their relevance because of the insight and spiritual lessons, and wisdom we gain from them. I would also add that they bear directly on the Christian life because even Paul uses the burnt offering in his imagery of Christian service in Romans 12: 1-2. In that passage, the Christian is both the priest and the sacrifice. The priesthood of Aaron typifies not only Jesus, but the Christian life as well. What Jewish people do or don't do isn't at all relevant. And the issue here isn't exactly "Christian non-observance". You are the one who brought up the dietary laws and "Christian nonobservance" of them, as an example of Christians "dumping the OT law. QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Nov 17 2006, 05:47 PM) No it does not. What the book of Hebrews says is that Jesus was the once for all sin offering, and it was specifically referring to the sin offering of Yom Kippur. The Temple will be rebuilt, and you can read about it in the last nine chapters of Ezekiel. You will notice as you read that the sin offering of Yom Kippur is not in the list of Sacrifices that will be performed in the Millennial Temple. Not every sacrifice was a sin offering. Your correct that "Not every sacrifice was a sin offering". Jesus was "typed" as the Passover lamb. And that wasn't a sin offering. Do you want Jesus to be both the Passover lamb and a Yom Kippur offering? Jesus IS both the Passover Lamb and the Yom Kippur offering. Both are types of Christ. In fact, Jesus' last week and the events that transpire line up perfectly with the instructions given in Exodus 12. Furthermore, the Yom Kippur sin offering was a substutionary sacrifice, that typifies Jesus as the once for all Sin Offering. Every sacrifice that was performed, was met in the single sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. All at once, Jesus was the Passover sacrifice, the Burnt Offering, the Minchah Offering, the Praise Offering, the Trespass Offering, and the Sin offering. He was the final once for all Sin Offering which is why when the Temple is built in the Last Days according to Ezekiel, the Yom Kippur Offering is not included the in the list of Sacrifices that will be performed in that Temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2006 There are over 1,000 commandments given to Christians in the New Testament. How is this a response to the charge of question-begging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 The Bible says that there is no remssion of sin without the shedding of blood. Could you point us to where it says this in the Old Testament? No I can't, and I don't need to. The New Testament is written out of Old Testament knowledge. The context of Hebrews 9 is the Kom Kippur sacrifice, and there is no "nonblood" Kom Kippur offering. Therefore the writer of Hebrews was absolutely accurate, and because it is not a verbatim quote from the OT doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2006 It depends on whether you are talking about the modern "instutional" church, as I refer to it, or New Testament Christianity. There is a difference. There are plenty of people who consider themsevles "Christians" solely because they attend church and mentally assent to the "Christian religion." There is a difference between a person who merely follows the religion, and someone who has a true, living relationship with Jesus Christ. Biblical Christianity is birthed out of the Old Testament. The New Testament is written in the terminology and language of the Festivals and the sacrificial system. Christians have not dumped the OT per se, but most understand the difference between what was commanded to the Jewish people, and what is commanded to the Church. Christians still consider the OT relevant as a moral code, and even in the ceremonial aspects it maintains relevance because the Festivals, the Tabernacle structure and it's contents, the sacrifices and other services, the Priesthood/High Priest, all point to Jesus, and they all tell the story of redemption. Biblical Christianity is born out of all of that. All of those things, while not given to the Christian as a commandment to perform, still maintain their relevance because of the insight and spiritual lessons, and wisdom we gain from them. I would also add that they bear directly on the Christian life because even Paul uses the burnt offering in his imagery of Christian service in Romans 12: 1-2. In that passage, the Christian is both the priest and the sacrifice. The priesthood of Aaron typifies not only Jesus, but the Christian life as well. This isn't really addressing the issue of whether a God who had given a certain law and was ultra-strict about it, would really have given the New Testament. Except perhaps where you mention that, "the Festivals, the Tabernacle structure and it's contents, the sacrifices and other services, the Priesthood/High Priest, all point to Jesus". Which you haven't given any evidence for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProcess Posted November 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 487 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/27/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2006 The Bible says that there is no remssion of sin without the shedding of blood. Could you point us to where it says this in the Old Testament? No I can't, and I don't need to. The New Testament is written out of Old Testament knowledge. The context of Hebrews 9 is the Kom Kippur sacrifice, and there is no "nonblood" Kom Kippur offering. Therefore the writer of Hebrews was absolutely accurate, and because it is not a verbatim quote from the OT doesn't really matter. Well the scapegoat on Yom Kippur wasn't killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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