Burden of proof

[Fovezer]

The Bible is not only historically accurate, but geographically and prophetically accurate. There is no other book, modern or ancient to even come close to it.

John

Even if the Bible were historically accurate, what would that prove? The Bible may have some historically accurate parts, but it is written by men and the stories have been passed down, and humans have been known to exaggerate in stories. The Bible is not geographically accurate, nor is it prophetically accurate. Sources for this info too.

For starters, visit the following and read/study with an open mind.

http://www.icr.org/faqs/

John

ICR, eh? How about AiG? Both sites provide no evidence for YEC. They think that if they prove evolution wrong, YEC is right, which is not the cause. They also rely mainly on how they write the article and not actual evidence. The evidence they do use has been proven false countless times, yet they refuse to admit they are wrong. Answer this, why is it so hard for you to accept evolution? A majority of Christians already have.

[Fovezer]

Quote:

Gen 1:1-31

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

(KJV)

Exod 31:15-17

15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

(KJV)

Heb 4:4

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

(KJV)

What is the point of reciting Bible verses to an atheist? Also, read Genesis Chapter 2, it completely contradicts Chapter 1

[nebula]

OK, I' know I am setting myself up for being hit from both sides, but I thought I'd submit this article anyway.

The Fish Wars

Here's some quotes, though:

As Christians, we believe that God created the earth and everything in it. "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made" (John 1:3). Because of that fact, what valid science reveals about God's creation will never and can never contradict what God intended in the inspired creation account of Genesis. God is not deceptive, but rather a loving God whose wonder and glory is reflected in His creation.

People use science to study the natural world, and to figure out how it operates. The scientific method and peer review system (where scientists anonymously review one another's work before publishing in respected journals) were developed to prevent human bias and personal opinion from influencing a scientist's results. When followed properly, scientific research simply reveals how the natural world physically operates.

It is important to note that scientists can't test all ideas. Natural science by definition only examines the physical, not the metaphysical. Thus scientists can not experimentally test for the supernatural existence of a Creator because God's presence is spiritually discerned. "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14)

Accepting that a spiritual or supernatural realm exists is one expression of faith. Paul writes, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against -- the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm." (Eph. 6:12) Therefore, no matter what science reveals about natural history and the development of organisms, it can never disprove -- or prove -- the existence of God.

Before we can discuss evidence for evolution, we must define terms or we risk making false statements, or causing confusion instead of bringing understanding. The word "evolution" evokes strong feelings in many people, and before the discussion can move toward a resolution, everyone needs to use the same definitions.

Evolution: Taken in its most basic form, evolution simply means change. The biology textbook1 I teach from defines evolution as "the cumulative genetic changes in a population from generation to generation."

Unfortunately, "evolution" is used at various times to mean microevolution, macroevolution, evolutionary biology, neo-Darwinism, and evolutionism, all of which I explain on the definition page.

Evolutionism: The philosophical position that states evolutionary theory is incompatible with belief in God. Evolutionism is often what Christians mean when saying they oppose evolution, although it is often confused with the science of evolution. Evolutionism is an invalid extension of evolutionary biology out of science and into the realm of philosophy.

Hotly debated among some scientists and Christian intellectuals is whether natural selection alone can explain the development of new structures -- like wings with feathers -- in organisms over millions of years. Among the major parts of evolutionary biology outlined above, this is one small scientific -- not religious -- disagreement. Its answer, one way or the other, will not diminish the truth of either evolutionary theory or the Bible.

The true conflict for all believers lies with evolutionism alone, not with any other aspect of evolutionary biology: natural selection, microevolution, or macroevolution. Recall that "evolutionism" is the personal -- not scientific -- belief that evolutionary theory is incompatible with belief in God.

Saying evolutionary theory and faith are incompatible is unfortunately not limited to atheists. Certain Christian authors also state that evolution disproves God, causing much unnecessary confusion among Christians. However, the belief that evolutionary theory disproves God is merely a personal interpretation of science, not the science itself -- and that is why the debate occurs in books, on TV, and in the pews but not in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

Most scientists accept that evolution and faith in God need not conflict, even non-religious ones. Two well-known non-religious scientists -- Eugenie Scott, Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), and Harvard University professor Stephen Jay Gould (who calls himself an "agnostic Jew") -- openly state that evolutionary biology does not say anything about the existence of God.2

But Saint Paul writes, "Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful" (2 Timothy 2:24). Paul also writes, "avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless" (Titus 3:10).

Jesus makes it clear that his followers must spend their time and efforts wisely in the Parable of the Ten Virgins (Mt. 25: 1-13) and the Parable of the Talents (Mt. 25: 14-30). Time is a gift from God, and we must be careful stewards of it.

Instead of responding to Darwin decals with anti-Darwin decals, proudly convinced we know "Truth," we should stop, think, and pray. When science reveals facts that don't seem to fit what we, as human beings, think the Bible means, we must be humble. Many Christians also accept evolution and prefer to be called "evolutionary creationists." There are a number of ways evolutionary creationists correlate the Bible and the scientific findings of evolutionary theory.

One critical message from the Creation story -- as the early church fathers outlined in the Apostles Creed -- is that God created the world and everything in it, not the methods God uses to create and sustain life.

Ponder how many interpretations of various Bible passages different believers have. For many things, we may never have a complete understanding this side of heaven. And if we will never know the absolute answers within our lifetimes, rather than debating we should turn to those things Jesus clearly called us to -- loving God with our whole hearts, loving our neighbors as ourselves, building up the body of Christ in love, freeing ourselves from idols, and caring for the poor.

Questions? Comments? Tomatoes? Pies?