mrs Posted November 25, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2006 7c-why would someone believe in the present day existence of the gifts but not believe in grace? or vice versa? Greetings LAW. When smiles said he believed in the "doctrines of grace" it was just another way of saying he believes in TULIP (the five points of Calvinism). More info here: http://monergism.com/thethreshold/articles...nesofgrace.html Blessings, Lane I'm a she. And I liked your quote of Piper's on irresistable grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted November 26, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sorry smiles... it's hard to tell here ya know...!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted November 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sorry smiles... it's hard to tell here ya know...!? ` I know lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill W Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I have an interesting question regarding grace and election. Is it possible for one to be saved in their youth and then live apart from God for over ten years and by life events be driven back to God and have salvation the whole time? The reason for my question is I am fearful of not being saved. I don't know if this is a constant attack by the devil or my doubt. Anything helps Bill W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted November 27, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 I have an interesting question regarding grace and election. Bill, I don't know if this is the right forum for the discussion but I will give you a brief answer here because I can tell you're sincerely looking for an answer... Is it possible for one to be saved in their youth and then live apart from God for over ten years and by life events be driven back to God and have salvation the whole time? The reason for my question is I am fearful of not being saved. I believe the answer is yes. The key here as I see it is the fact that you were "driven back to God." In John 10:27 (KJV), Jesus says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." You may have strayed for a season but you were one of His sheep the whole time. And now you're back in the fold, right? I don't know if this is a constant attack by the devil or my doubt. It's both, bro... and I wish I could tell you it gets easier but until we reach the other side of eternity, it's just going to be this way. You can read Romans ch. 7 and see how the apostle Paul himself struggled with this wretched flesh. I hope that helps. Feel free to pm me or visit the link to my site (in my sig) if you'd like to talk about this more in-depth. Blessings, Lane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted November 28, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 Bill, I thought of you when I read this poem... http://www.graceforums.com/topic.php?id=159 I hope it will get you thinking more about the work God does and less about what you do to be saved. Please, let me know if you want to talk more on this or if you have any other questions. I'll be glad to try and help in any way I can. Shalom, Lane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideir Posted December 29, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2006 I am posting this outside the debate forums so maybe I'll get some honest answers... Are there any non-cessationist Calvinist (Reformed) believers in these forums? I know there aren't many of us so it's nice when I actually find a "kindred spirit." Blessings, Lane I consider myself to be mainly of the reformed persuasion. Personally, I believe that when and if G-d needs someone to use the gifts, He can cause that one to be gifted; however, I have seen people who claimed to have certain of the listed gifts, and they were way out in left field, to say the least: they were not only charlatans, but they broke several of the Commands to make their pretenses. I, personally, practice one of the gifts daily: that of helps. This is where my talents lie and this is what G-d created and gifted me to do. So yes, I believe that the gifts are extant, as Messiah deems them needed, for use to the glory of G-d and not to that of human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I am posting this outside the debate forums so maybe I'll get some honest answers... Are there any non-cessationist Calvinist (Reformed) believers in these forums? I know there aren't many of us so it's nice when I actually find a "kindred spirit." Blessings, Lane Greetings, I do believe in some of Calvin's teachings. But I have never really read and studied them so I can't say I am 100% in favor of them. I believe in Election. And I believe in perserverence of the saints. Both have been supported by scripture to me through personal study. Throughout our lives Christ/God leads us down a path of salvation. Situations and people he places in our path lead us closer to saving knowledge of him. Experiences, whether good or bad, are all used to help us have a greater understanding of His love and grace. Therefore, if someone feels led to witness to another. Truly feels the strong urge to share God's word and the miracle that is Jesus Christ with an unsaved soul. I believe that is God's way of telling you that the person could be one of God's elect. I believe that if he is calling you to do that, you are the vessel he wishes to use to bring that person further down the path to belief in Him and ultimately Salvation. God is not willing that any should perish. I have known those who think that election seems to mean that we do not need to witness, but I believe that this sort of thinking turns that around. Since we are called to do God's work, to "go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" that is part of God's plan for election as well. Believing in election and understanding God's great commission puts that responsibility on us as well. Sharing in the joy of being used of God is our great reward. In His Mighty Grip, Bib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted December 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2006 Moved from the Welcome Forum to the Doctrinal Questions Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted December 29, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 I do want to ask you if when you speak of being a follower of Calvin, does that mean you believe in the pure doctrine of Calvin, including the idea that God chose who he will to be saved and to be lost before the foundation of the earth, or the watered down brand of Calvanism found in most Baptist Churches today that tries to have it both ways, believing in free will to accept or reject Christ, but also holding to unconditional eternal security of the believer? Hi Butero! I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not a "follower of Calvin." I am a follower of Jesus Christ. As for the theology of it all, I would be identified as a five-point Calvinist. If you believe in the original doctrine of Calvin, while I have my doubts about it's validity, it makes far more sense in light of scripture than what most modern followers of Calvin teach. At least, if you believe God chose you before you were created to be saved or lost, you can understand how a person could be eternally secure. Those who are chosen will leave this world having lived a holy life before God. Those who were created to be lost will be the sinners, lukewarm, and backsliders. At least that makes logical sense. The biggest hang up I come up with under this doctrine is why the need for missionaries and evangelists, as the chosen will be saved anyway. Maybe you can clear some of those things up? I agree. It does make far more sense. The belief in "eternal Security" and the belief in the soteriologically libertarian free will (that man has a choice in the matter of his salvation) are totally incompatible. Why the need to preach the Gospel? Simple. We're commanded to do so. God uses His children in the work of fulfilling His eternal will. Consider this: "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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