Proof there is, or is not a spirit?

[billie]

I don't get it.

[cjrose]

If there was physical evidence of the Spirit and physical evidence of God, there would be no need for Faith.

Have you ever heard the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy radio show, by Douglas Adams? From memory, a part of it goes like this - the Book is talking about a really useful creature (the babelfish), and how only an intelligent designer could've come up with it. So:

'"I refuse to prove I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."

'"But," says Man, "the babelfish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It proves you exist and so therefor you don't, Q.E.D."

'"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

'"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore he goes on to prove that black is white and promptly gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing. Meanwhile, the poor babelfish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different cultures and species, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.'

P I adore you but this makes NO sense of course maybe I'll start to laugh in 10 mins!!!!

[billie]

CJ, I'm with you. Maybe it's an atheist thing.

[secondeve]

I don't get it.

If there was physical evidence of the Spirit and physical evidence of God, there would be no need for Faith.

Have you ever heard the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy radio show, by Douglas Adams? From memory, a part of it goes like this - the Book is talking about a really useful creature (the babelfish), and how only an intelligent designer could've come up with it. So:

'"I refuse to prove I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."

'"But," says Man, "the babelfish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It proves you exist and so therefor you don't, Q.E.D."

'"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

'"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore he goes on to prove that black is white and promptly gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing. Meanwhile, the poor babelfish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different cultures and species, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.'

:24:

P I adore you but this makes NO sense of course maybe I'll start to laugh in 10 mins!!!!

In the show, the babelfish was a small, yellow, leechlike creature which fed on brainwaves. The practical upshot was that if you put a babelfish in your ear, you could instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. So the context was, the babelfish was so bizzarely useful that it couldn't have just evolved. Bearing in mind that the Hitchhiker's Guide is entirely absurd and a farce. It's meant not to make that much sense - it's intended comedically. The whole premise of the show is the Earth gets blown up by aliens wanting to make way for an interstellar bypass, one man survives and goes off with his friend, a researcher for the Guide, to travel the universe. It was on British radio originally, but there's also been books, a TV series and a recent film.

Edited December 1, 2006 by secondeve

[undone]

I know first handedly, we are all born with a spirit.

Do you have physical evidence of that fact?

Is there something you can pick up and say "this is proof"?

Is there physical evidence you have a mind? Something you can pick up and say "this is proof"?

I'm sure few people seriously doubt the existence of the mind. So isn't this along the same lines as a spirit? Soul? Consciousness?

[Guest man]

Is there physical evidence you have a mind? Something you can pick up and say "this is proof"?

I'm sure few people seriously doubt the existence of the mind. So isn't this along the same lines as a spirit? Soul? Consciousness?

It's called a brain.

It can be picked up, it can be photographed, you can actually see what it looks like.

You can't do this with a spirit, a soul, consciousness. To believe that any of these three exist, you must have Faith in their existance.

[Guest LAW]

the problem is (IMO) that when you say "evidence", what you are really saying is that you want physical or empirical evidence-something that can be evaluated or recognized by the 5 senses. i don't think a spirit, by its very nature, could be so recognized.

We are soooo limited in body and mind and we think we are sooooooo smart.

God has to have kept His sense of humor to have put up with man all this time.

[Ovedya]

Man is composed of body, soul and spirit. The Bible clearly distinguishes between the soul of man and the spirit of man:

"But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding." (Job 32:8)

"The burden of the word of Jehovah concerning Israel. Thus declares Jehovah, who stretches forth the heavens and lays the foundations of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him," (Zech. 12:1)

"The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching all the innermost parts of the inner being.: (Prov. 23:27)

"And Mary said, My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has exulted in God my Savior;" (Luke 1:46-47)

"For God is my witness, whom I serve in my spirit in the gospel of His Son, how unceasingly I make mention of you always in my prayers," (Rom. 1:9)

"The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." (Rom. 8:16)

"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the mind; I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing also with the mind. Otherwise if you bless with the spirit, how shall he who fills the place of the unlearned in tongues say the Amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?" (1 Cor. 14:14-16)

"For they 1arefreshed my 2bspirit and yours. cAcknowledge therefore such ones." (1 Cor. 16:18)

"Because of this we have been comforted. And in addition to our comfort, we rejoiced more abundantly over the joy of Titus, because his spirit has been refreshed by all of you." ( 2Cor. 7:13)

"And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess. 5:23)

"For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of dsoul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Heb. 4:12)

According to the Greek language and my understanding of the Bible, the human body (bios) contains all the senses by which we contact the physical world. Touch, sight, taste, smell, and hearing are all elements of our physical body designed to contact the physical world. In the Bible bios can also mean "the manner of life or of living."

The human soul in Greek is pseuche. It is given to indicate the man's mind, his emotional capacity and his will. With the mind man thinks and considers. With his emotions he interprets and expresses his thoughts and understanding. And with his will he carries out his intentions and the desires of his heart.

The human spirit is specifically that part of man which is given by God as the means by which he contacts the spiritual realm. As shown in the verses above, it is where man makes contact with God. the human spirit is where man is regenerated (1 Pet. 1:3, 23); it is where the Triune God comes to infill us, and where He dwells to be our life(John 11:25; Col. 3:4; Col. 1:27) This pneuma is the vital aspect of man's very life, and it becomes filled with the very pneuma of God the moment He comes into us.

As far as proof goes, read the Bible.

[cjrose]

I don't get it.

If there was physical evidence of the Spirit and physical evidence of God, there would be no need for Faith.

Have you ever heard the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy radio show, by Douglas Adams? From memory, a part of it goes like this - the Book is talking about a really useful creature (the babelfish), and how only an intelligent designer could've come up with it. So:

'"I refuse to prove I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."

'"But," says Man, "the babelfish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It proves you exist and so therefor you don't, Q.E.D."

'"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

'"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore he goes on to prove that black is white and promptly gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing. Meanwhile, the poor babelfish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different cultures and species, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.'

P I adore you but this makes NO sense of course maybe I'll start to laugh in 10 mins!!!!

In the show, the babelfish was a small, yellow, leechlike creature which fed on brainwaves. The practical upshot was that if you put a babelfish in your ear, you could instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. So the context was, the babelfish was so bizzarely useful that it couldn't have just evolved. Bearing in mind that the Hitchhiker's Guide is entirely absurd and a farce. It's meant not to make that much sense - it's intended comedically. The whole premise of the show is the Earth gets blown up by aliens wanting to make way for an interstellar bypass, one man survives and goes off with his friend, a researcher for the Guide, to travel the universe. It was on British radio originally, but there's also been books, a TV series and a recent film.

That reminds me of the movie I took my daughter to see Aquamarine, she had these cute little tiny starfish earrings that spoke to her. But what does this have to do with this topic? I am perplexed as to why I am so lost on this! P, you are purposely doing this to me aren't you!!

[cjrose]

Dead people cannot attest, at least to us, that they have a spirit. There is simply no way of knowing.

Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know they cannot attest to it. I'm sorry runner but that's amusing. The truth is that we won't know until we die so why not make the choice to believe NOW before you do die and it's too late for the salvation of your soul? If you have any doubt in your mind about the spirit, ask God even if you don't believe, try it, ask Him to reveal the Spirit to you sincerely with all your heart. Until you ask, you will never have proof.

Also, many people give the spirit functions of the mind. Like consciousness. But we know the mind is at least partially rooted in the body (drugs and brain damage affect people's minds, for instance), so it is not really reasonable to assume the mind will continue to live on after the brain dies. How can it?

It also is amusing to me to what lengths non believers will go to and what they will say to try and get their point across on a Christian forum where as we make no sense to you, you make no sense to us and I really try to see your view but then I would be compromising my belief so, I can't go back to the darkness but you can still step into the light and you will understand that the body cannot live without the mind and function which is why they use the term "vegitable". They don't move, think, feel, comprehend, hear, see, etc...

Spirit functions of the mind??? Nonsensical since the Spirit is of the whole of our body and soul. Our conciousness is a part of our body function that has to do with the mind but it's the mind along with a spirit that is not alive in the Lord, is what causes bad decisions, give in to it's desires, etc... which then lead to destruction eventually. And you can have a perfectly moral human life but your spirit is not alive in the Lord which is the reason people pursue immorality thought in your eyes it may not be immoral but "if it feels good it must be right" Emotions rule the non believer, that is conciousness, emotions are not your life, they are temporary, unrooted, on shakey foundation.

My Spirit is alive and is proof enough for me. Do you ask yourself ever why we take this time to attempt to explain to you why salvation is the most important and Jesus is the most central figure of our lives? Because the world is wasting away and will only get worse. More war, more famine, more epidemics, and that's not the least of it.

Some stuff to chew on. If you can open your mind for a time to chew on it.