Baptism

[JesusisGod2]

Hi Endure,

Gottcha, I did miss understand you, But I believe there is another thread going on about baptism being neccesary for salavation. You might have even been the one that has started it.

I cant say as I agree with you on this point though, although I dont know why one would not want to be baptized either, so maybe you might have something.

But any way I thought the topic was on the latter part such as in the name of Jesus or the Father, Son. and Holy Spirit.

And not on the neccessity of baptism.

one thing though I have noticed is that neither Jesus or Paul seemed to do a lot of water baptism.

[endure4salvation]

Hi Endure,

Gottcha, I did miss understand you, But I believe there is another thread going on about baptism being neccesary for salavation. You might have even been the one that has started it.

I cant say as I agree with you on this point though, although I dont know why one would not want to be baptized either, so maybe you might have something.

But any way I thought the topic was on the latter part such as in the name of Jesus or the Father, Son. and Holy Spirit.

And not on the neccessity of baptism.

one thing though I have noticed is that neither Jesus or Paul seemed to do a lot of water baptism.

I see your point about not thread-jacking... I won't do it except to say that obedience is required and it is a commandment...that is my point. Now then....

The book of Acts is a recording of the Church origin and we should find a lot of great information about baptism in it.

Acts 2:41 mentiones at least 3,000 people being baptized and doesn't say if in the 3 Names or just One Name. All the other places would take a long time to research, so I would suggest reading it for ones self to determine what it says.

I don't know...I was baptized in all Three, but don't know if it would be a problem just in Jesus' name.

[Guest shiloh357]

I feel that obedience to Christ's commands is necissary for salvation (as He clearly taught), and baptism is a direct commandment of Christ (the great commission), so baptism is required for salvation.

Endure, I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this. The Bible says that salvation is by grace through faith, and not of works. Baptism is a "work." Salvation is not Jesus plus baptism, or Jesus plus anything else. Salvation is Jesus plus zero. Salvation is Christ alone. If you make salvation dependant upon someone getting baptized, then what about someone who is does not have access to it? For example, what about someone who gets saved on their deathbed and dies minutes later? What about the thief on the cross? God cannot make it necessary for you to be babtized, and allow others to skip out. It has to be same for everyone. This is why God set it up as being a matter of faith. If he had made one work necessary for salvation, there would be someone on the planet who could not do it. This is silly, but if God said, "You must believe in Jesus and have purple tennis shoes," there would be somone on the planet who would not have access to purple tennis shoes. No matter how miniscule the externality, God would end up leaving somone out if he tacked anything onto believing in Jesus. God does not want to leave anyone out.

Paul does not teach that you must be baptized in order to be saved. He says a lot about salavation. He says a lot about it in Romans. If baptism is necessary for salvation then it must be included in EVERY verse that says how we must be saved. Why? because when the Bible was being writtien people did not own their own personal copy. Since the letters of Paul got sent to the churches being addressed, you cannot assume that all the Christians of the first century had access to every word that Paul wrote. Neither can we assume that everyone had access to the book of Acts, or the Gospels. If we were living at that time, I might have had access to only one of Paul's letters, maybe two. What if I had lived at that time and died before the book of acts was written? What if I did not get to read the gospel of Mark? I would not have heard anyone tell me that "baptism is necessary for salvation." That being the case, If I were Paul, I could not assume that you would learn this "truth" from reading a different letter, or something written by someone else. I would need to tell you everything you need to know in this letter. If Paul thought that baptism were necessary for salvation, he would have needed to include it in EVERY statement he made about how to be saved. He would have made sure that everyone knew, and would not take for granted that they would read it elsewhere.

Furthermore, baptism is the New Testament equivilant to circumscision in the Old Testament. Just as Abraham was righteous before God 25 years before he was circumcised (Rom 4), likewise we are righteous before God before we are baptized. In my church, baptism was done on the following week after a person gets saved. This is done, because they do not have any dry clothes to change into the moment they get saved. What if during the upcoming week they die in a car accident? Are you going to say that they will go to hell because they did not get baptized?

[Guest shadow2b]

--Holy Father, keep them in Your Name, The Name which you have given Me, that they may be one even as We are one" John 17:11 NASB

John.17.vs.11.-------

And now I am no more in the world,but these are in the world,and I come to thee.

HOLY FATHER,keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,

that they may be one,as we are........kjv---

--heeeeyyyyy KEV.---man-o-man- that nasb version is a new one on me ----NEVER have i read in

any other translation what is stated here & it certainly is a "new" wrinkle on me-----

I don't see how these two versions can be SO different on the same verse...IT totally changes the

entire concept being taught{i think}------------------

I read thru the same verses in the 1534 edition of william tyndale's translation The 1611 kjv-

quotes exactly the Tyndale translation.....the 1534 tyndale was an update of tyndale's 1525

edition with his prefaces notes & variants added.................

NOT trying to argue just for the sake of{i'm right---you're wrong}BUT i'M just greatly puzzled by

this "strange" difference of the same verse----------

GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTHSEEKERS--------------------very-puzzled----Gary--

[Guest tiggr]

Here is something else to look at,in Acts 2:38 it reads repent and be baptized everyone of you in the in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins also Jesus told Nicodemus unless a man be born of the water and the Spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

If baptsm is not important then why is it stressed so much in the Bible, also if you look at Matthew 28;19 it says in the name (singular) not plural, if you were to baptize someone in the NAMES of the Father Son and Holy Ghost then wouldnt you have to speak three seperate names?

[Guest shadow2b]

--This is silly, but if God said, "You must believe in Jesus and have purple tennis shoes," there would be somone on the planet who would not have access to purple tennis shoes. No matter how miniscule the externality, God would end up leaving somone out if he tacked anything onto believing in Jesus. God does not want to leave anyone out.

-GRACE-PLUS-PURPLE TENNIS SHOES = salvation?? NOW THERE ARE THREE THEOLOGIANS ON

WORTHY-LOVE-IT--

[JesusisGod2]

Amen Tiggr,

You bring some excellant points to the table, I believe baptism is very important as an act of obedience and as a proclamation of your faith, but not a requirement for salvation.

But I will say this though, if one says they believe in the Lord and refuse to be baptized, I would question if that person has the faith unto salvation. Remember the demons also believe and they tremble at the name of Jesus.

So in view of this, maybe this is why they say believe and be baptized, for this shows the world and the individual their faith. this is if they are capable to do so.

I do not understand why one would not want to be baptized if they have the opportunity,

Hey Shadow dude

They say that the NASB is the nearest to the translation of the greek text, I am no scholar but that is what I have heard. Now my understanding of what it is saying could be wrong, but the translation is good.

[Guest shiloh357]

Tiggr

If baptsm is not important then why is it stressed so much in the Bible,

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

First of all, as I posted earlier there are myriads of verses about salvation that say NOTHING about baptism. If it were so impportant for salvation, it would accompany every verse about salvation.

The verse from 1 Peter is talking about the flood. Here is what the verse that proceeds verse 21 says:

1 Peter 3:20 

    who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

The flood is not what saved Noah and his family. It was the ark. The the ark is a type of Christ who saves us. Just as the flood was not the element the saved Noah and his family, baptism is not the element of salvation for the Christian. It is faith in Christ alone. Baptism is important, but it has no saving properties. Why does not John 3:16 mention baptism? Why does'nt Eph. 2:8-9 mention salvation? Baptism is not mentioned in the book of Romans, where we find the greatest concentration of scripture about how to be saved.

[Guest Bunky]

Acts 8:35-36

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water: what doth hinder me to be baptized?

From these two scriptures, I would say that Philip preached more than just the knowledge that Jesus Christ was the Savior.

I would say that he preached repentance, water baptism, (in the name of Jesus Christ) and that the eunuch would receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost....just like they were told on the Day of Pentecost.

Why would Philip preach any other gospel?

Bunky

[Guest tiggr]

AMEN to that Bunky!

Also if baptism is not important then I geuss what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 (he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved) was just something that he said to take up space? I think not, and as for the Book of Romans, all of the books in the New Testament from Romans through Jude are epistles that were written to either a church or to a specific person, these people had already obeyed the gospel of the Lord. They were not being told how to be saved but what they needed to do to stay that way. Matthew - John are the gospels, Acts shows the begining of the church and what took placed during that time.

Is not the gospel of Jesus Christ his death burial and resurrection?

1 Cor 15:1-5:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

2 Thess 1:8

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:17

7 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

So with that in mind how do we obey the gospel if it is the death, burial,and the resurrection.

Would it not be our death to sin through repentance(repentance means to turn from sin not just asking to be forgiven of sin)

Our burial in the name of Jesus Christ ( water baptism )

Our resurrection in the Holy Ghost to walk in a new life with Christ.

This does not mean that salvation is not free because it is. Its for whosoever will Jesus has already paid the price its up to us to be obedient to Him

Tiggr