Death

[secondeve]

Back when I was a kid, I used to think of being dead as being swallowed up in this massive blackness, because black is what we see when we close our eyes (as well as a funeral colour). Then I got a little older and realised that if I was dead, I'd have no senses to be able to discern blackness - but when we sleep, which is as close to death as we get while living, black is what denotes an absense of anything else. So how could human beings get a handle on death, when we wouldn't even be able to percieve what we otherwise know as an absence?

People believe in lots of different things, when it comes to death. 'That undiscovered country from whose bourne no traveller returns, puzzles the will' - it does. We can't ever know what happens when we die, in the same way that we can look into an unfamiliar room and note the contents. My beliefs are open on the subject of death. I don't put faith in the idea, but it's possible that human beings possess something which might continue afterwards in one form or another. I think it's more likely that we just stop, from what we know of the human brain and chemistry, but I couldn't prove it - and nor would I really want to. I'm a romantic. I like the idea of a soul.

But when we talk of afterlives - that, I don't believe. I find the idea too incredulous, and too humanistically utopian. Throughout human history there are notions of paradise and hell, all dependant on what that particular society or faith deemed most important. The Norsemen thought they'd go to Valhallah if they died as warriors; if not, they would end up in Hel (one 'l'), with women, children and others who had not died gloriously, ruled over by a goddess of the same name. The Greeks had different places to go after death - the Elysian Fields, if you were particularly good, or the pits of Hades if not, where you would experience eternal torment. The Ancient Egyptians believed that, upon death, your ka, or spirit, would descend to the Underworld of Osiris. There, the Goddess of Truth, Ma'at, would weigh your heart against your bad deeds while the Judges of the Dead looked on. If you were worthy - if the scale balanced - you were allowed into heaven, which was essentially a more utopian version of the real world. If you were unworthy, then Amamut, a terrible beast, would devour your soul.

The measurements of heaven are given in the Bible - in cubits, which would suggest (at least to me) a physical place. The Bible also says you will exist in the presence of God, the implication being that this will be more glorious than anything else we could possibly imagine. Still, though, this isn't exactly specific, and different Christians that I've talked to have different ideas of heaven - and of hell. What do you think each one will be like? Literal flames and torment, or simply the most horrible punishment of all, to a believer - to be eternally deprived of God's presence? An idealised, physical heaven, or something more spiritual? I know of family friends who, when their uncle died, said at the funeral that they thought he'd be up in heaven drinking beer and playing golf with his mates who'd gone before him. Is this what you envisage, or not? Why?

Edited December 7, 2006 by secondeve

[Joshua-777]

The measurements of heaven are given in the Bible - in cubits, which would suggest (at least to me) a physical place. The Bible also says you will exist in the presence of God, the implication being that this will be more glorious than anything else we could possibly imagine. Still, though, this isn't exactly specific, and different Christians that I've talked to have different ideas of heaven - and of hell. What do you think each one will be like? Literal flames and torment, or simply the most horrible punishment of all, to a believer - to be eternally deprived of God's presence? An idealised, physical heaven, or something more spiritual? I know of family friends who, when their uncle died, said at the funeral that they thought he'd be up in heaven drinking beer and playing golf with his mates who'd gone before him. Is this what you envisage, or not? Why?

Ok first off, rev 21 the kingdom is measured in Cubits, but very importantly, is the NEW earth, after everything is made perfect. Ok, death, In rev 19 it talks about death and hades and everyone who was in hades thrown into fire, in the NKJV. Hades a place of outer darkness, totaly away from God, I really dont know too much about it, I know that fire, and darkness are 2 different places, awaiting the final judgement, but I dont believe that you will go to directly fire when you die. Ya see one thing I find interesting that all color comes from light, Like a blue cup isn't blue, it just has the nessisary compnents to reflect the blue in the Light. Which I find interesting cause God is concidered the Father of light, and Jesus is refered to as the light, so all collor are existing in the Light, darkness I do see very clearly, which if you are in a dark room with no light, there is no color, what was blue turns black. What I believe is that sin stains the soul, Jesus was perfect without sin, and predestined sence the begining to die for our sins, and prepare the way to the Father, Jesus did die for our sins, and rose again in all glory, giving us freedom from death, and escape from the outer judgement and freedom, and all we have to do is accept him, and try to follow him, he will meet us half way. Now honestly, I will say, of sinners I am the worst, I am only free through Jesus Christ, and of all people it amazes me that he would even care enough to pull me out of that bondage, it's such a blessing to even know him. As for a non-believer, they have a choice, if they refuse, and do not accept everlasting life, then they will be cast away in outer darkness, awaiting the final judgement.

[systemstrike_7]

Concerning hell, I read a commentary by Bruce Metzger where he talked about what hell was really like. He stated that when the Bible refers to fire, it is talking about judgment. I personally believe hell will be complete seperation from God. If you think on this it sounds pretty sensible. If a person leads a very good life, but never believes in God, rather refuses to believe in God, should they be thrown in hell? If they lead a great life why are they being punished so severely? Now, instead of being tormented in hell, this person is just getting what he wanted, eternity without God. No doubt, this will not be pleasant, but didn't this person basically ask for this? They didn't want God, so they didn't get him. I believe that without God, lonliness would multiply hundredfolds. How horrible this would be! Having no contact with anyone, or even God! So back to fire, instead of hell being a place where you are roasted repeatedly for eternity, it is just God's judgement on someone who wanted nothing to do with Him. Concerning people who believe false religions, they also would endure this horrible consequence. They chose to ignore the true God and believe something of their own delight.

Just my thoughts.

But here is an interesting subject, what about different levels of hell? If I am correct, there is scripture talking about different levels of hell, similar to different rewards in Heaven.

(and as a side not, there is a popular belief that we will give our crowns [or rewards] at the feet of Jesus, so it doesn't matter what rewards we recieve, but I have never seen any scriptural backing for this belief)

Thoughts on levels of hell?

[secondeve]

Thoughts on levels of hell?

The extent of my knowledge here would be Dante's Inferno and the varying rings of hell. You get a nicer level if you're a virtuous pagan, and gluttons are in a sea of fire.

[billie]

Thoughts on levels of hell?

The extent of my knowledge here would be Dante's Inferno and the varying rings of hell. You get a nicer level if you're a virtuous pagan, and gluttons are in a sea of fire.

Yikes!

[systemstrike_7]

Thoughts on levels of hell?

The extent of my knowledge here would be Dante's Inferno and the varying rings of hell. You get a nicer level if you're a virtuous pagan, and gluttons are in a sea of fire.

Yikes!

I second that...Yikes!

I love reading into mythology. So many fantastical worlds to divulge in! And people say religion is boring...psh.

[billie]

I like mythology, too.

[sheya joie]

On a highly subjective note, a couple of hours before my husband died (heart attack in his sleep), I overheard him talking in his sleep. He was saying, "Hallelujah! Praise you, Father!" and sounding very excited and happy. This went on for maybe 10 minutes.

[systemstrike_7]

On a highly subjective note, a couple of hours before my husband died (heart attack in his sleep), I overheard him talking in his sleep. He was saying, "Hallelujah! Praise you, Father!" and sounding very excited and happy. This went on for maybe 10 minutes.

It is proof like this that cannot be refuted. Our God is an Awesome God! Thank you Sheya, you have just brightened my life a lot! Your husband must have truly been a man after God's own heart. Something that is so beautiful about being a believer is that while we are saddened by the loss of a loved one, we can ultimately celebrate death, because our loved ones are now in the presence of the Glorified Christ! What more could we ever ask for!

Praises to our Lord Most High!

God Bless you Sheya!

[Joshua-777]

On a highly subjective note, a couple of hours before my husband died (heart attack in his sleep), I overheard him talking in his sleep. He was saying, "Hallelujah! Praise you, Father!" and sounding very excited and happy. This went on for maybe 10 minutes.

It is proof like this that cannot be refuted. Our God is an Awesome God! Thank you Sheya, you have just brightened my life a lot! Your husband must have truly been a man after God's own heart. Something that is so beautiful about being a believer is that while we are saddened by the loss of a loved one, we can ultimately celebrate death, because our loved ones are now in the presence of the Glorified Christ! What more could we ever ask for!

Praises to our Lord Most High!

God Bless you Sheya!

Amen