One Punk Under God

[Emily~Anne]

I know this is a controversy "we" will never resolve. However, I have heard numerous times by those who minister to the punk/street/etc. community and those who came to Christ from that culture that if you didn't look like them, they wouldn't listen to you.

Hmmm... well that certainly was not true for me at all. Read my testimony at: http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=675031

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I think people should stop judging him after reading only a paragraph on who he is. Read his book then get back to me. Yes, he has a lot of undesirable people that attend his church - if this bothers you then please, forgo the name of Jesus, who's mission was to reach the undesirables.

Amen to that!

Anyone having a problem with Jay's ministry should read and re-read Acts 5:38-39 as many times as need be in order to understand what it is saying to us all. It says . . .

"And now I say to you, keep away from these men, and let them alone: for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it - lest you even be found to fight against God."

No need for name calling and judgemental attitudes. God will take care of His business; with or without our approval as to how He chooses to do it.

Jesus did not spend his time with the "beautiful people." He ate with the prostitutes, and the castaways that no one else had any use for. If Jesus had His eartly ministry today in the US, he would be eating with the bikers, the prostitutes, the homeless drunks, the ex-cons.

I think that what Jay is doing is commendable. I think we should cut him a break and just let him do what the Lord has put on his heart. I pray that much fruit is borne of this work.

Once again . .

Amen to that!

I am so thankful that Jesus didn't come to save only those who looked the best.

[Emily~Anne]

Is this about wether or not we should minister to goths and punks or is it about about wether or not we as Christians should do all we can to honor God in every way we can, including how we dress? I think it would be wise to keep the two seperate rather than blur the lines.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Emily Anne

[kittylover0991]

Amen Emily

Look, I might have.. or rather did.. sound harsh this morning.. but there really is a huge line between that a pastor should be from a particular culture to reach someone to Christ... and yes, when I said compromising, I meant about dress. I had a thread in here a few days ago about Christian Dress and about how important it really is.

However, please let me get one thing clear. I don't hate goths. Same as I don't hate homosexuals. Next thing, I am around goths and homosexuals all day long... all day, every day... (except at church and home).... Around here, to put it simply, they are lost (yeah, I understand.. that are some that are saved and may be coming out of htat.. not my point)... I don't judge goths by how their dress, unless you consider that it makes me sad in my heart becaue I know they are lost... then I don't judge them for that. All goths around here that I know are lost... Plain and simple. If they want to go to church, they will.... and I also have never heard of a church that has rejected someone by what they wear.. if they are wearing too little, ask them to cover up, yes.. but that normally isn't a problem around here for that...

What I am trying to say is this, please don't think that I am judging goths.. what I am saying is that I don't agree with this "church" becuaes it means completely blowing off that standard in order to reach souls for Christ. I am not going to go into a bar and drink all night in order to reach the people in a bar... no... that isn't right... I can reach out to someone who is "goth" without being goth... I can prove that by a friend of mine that is goth... her name is Nikki and we are really good friends... that still doesn't make it right...

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Is this about wether or not we should minister to those who look their best or is it about about wether or not we as Christians should do all we can to honor God in every way we can, including how we dress? I think it would be wise to keep the two seperate rather than blur the lines.

This thread is about what we think of Jay Baker starting this "One Punk Under God" ministry, and it does involve how he dresses.

If Jay Baker is really being lead by God to start this ministry, and if he keeps his motives right this ministry will reach many for God; no matter how Jay dresses.

God knows what it takes to reach all people. He also knows what kind of person it takes to get the job done.

I say . . . "Go for it Jay! Just keep your eyes and motives on God."

[botticelli]

Again, this ministry is not trying to reach people like you. it's trying to reach people like me (metalheads, punks, etc) and people generally outcast by society (drug addicts, prostitutes etc).

thats the whole problem in my opinion

if the church s petting "drug addicts, prostitutes etc" then it is bad

alot of the curches these day seem to follow the song "it all about love! love! love! love! love!"

i think churches these day need less teachings in love and more in God's justice and commandments.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

thats the whole problem in my opinion

if the church s petting "drug addicts, prostitutes etc" then it is bad

alot of the curches these day seem to follow the song "it all about love! love! love! love! love!"

i think churches these day need less teachings in love and more in God's justice and commandments.

God's justice and commandments are love, because God is love.

1 John 4:8, "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

[kittylover0991]

Right... but a father who does not point out to his children what is right and wrong, is not showing love, now is he?

Pro 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Here we go.. the verse I was looking for *Edit*

Pro 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Edited December 10, 2006 by kittylover0991

[botticelli]

thats the whole problem in my opinion

if the church s petting "drug addicts, prostitutes etc" then it is bad

alot of the curches these day seem to follow the song "it all about love! love! love! love! love!"

i think churches these day need less teachings in love and more in God's justice and commandments.

God's justice and commandments are love, because God is love.

1 John 4:8, "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction...ods-Justice.htm

[iammoreorless]

Well, I've read some or the replies. Interesting points. This is what I have to say

It's obvious some of us "christians" are picky as to who we would consider "worthy" to be "christianly " to. I think Yeshua put it this way in Matthew 23:13-33

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. F44 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise F45 and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Do you see any difference to those offended by this outreach? I don't.

The so-called subcultured need love too.

Edited December 10, 2006 by iammoreorless