Has Your life been better since becoming a Christian?

[systemstrike_7]

Whether that ditch leads to heaven or not....

We shall never know...

[Floatingaxe]

"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14}

Ain't God good?

[Guest shiloh357]

The blind have a hard time following someone.

"Faith is believing in what you know aint true." -Huckleberry Finn

All due respect to the litary genius that is Mark Twain, faith is believing be Truth, without the benefit of external proof. NO ONE lives for, or dies for something they know is not true.

[systemstrike_7]

The blind have a hard time following someone.

"Faith is believing in what you know aint true." -Huckleberry Finn

All due respect to the litary genius that is Mark Twain, faith is believing be Truth, without the benefit of external proof. NO ONE lives for, or dies for something they know is not true.

I've seen it happen. I have witnessed someone live a lie for the entirety of their life, simply because of the pressure of his neighbors to remain a Christian. He then came out and said that he was never a believer. People scolded him for it, but can you really blame him? I fear that I got close to doing the same thing.

[Guest shiloh357]

The blind have a hard time following someone.

"Faith is believing in what you know aint true." -Huckleberry Finn

All due respect to the litary genius that is Mark Twain, faith is believing be Truth, without the benefit of external proof. NO ONE lives for, or dies for something they know is not true.

I've seen it happen. I have witnessed someone live a lie for the entirety of their life, simply because of the pressure of his neighbors to remain a Christian. He then came out and said that he was never a believer. People scolded him for it, but can you really blame him? I fear that I got close to doing the same thing.

No, you don't understand. I am saying that no one gives their life for a cause or idea they know is lie, or based on a lie. The person whom you speak of was living under duress, going through the motions to please someone else until either he could not stand it or something else broke in his life that caused him to show what he truly believed. This person did not ever truly believe. He was not living for a belief, but rather suffering under the pressure to live pretentiously.

What I am saying is that no one invests their passion, their soul, or puts their life at risk needlessly for something they fictionalized or know is not true. True faith is not blind. That is not to say that there is no such thing as blind faith, but true faith is far from blind, and therefore cannot be defined as "believing what you know ain't true."

Faith is not blind belief.

[systemstrike_7]

Faith is not blind belief.

Faith is man's inability to answer a problem logically.

[Guest shiloh357]

Faith is not blind belief.

Faith is man's inability to answer a problem logically.

No it is not. Faith is entirely logical. Let me ask you this: Let's say for the sake argument that you and I knew each other for years. Let's say that I have always known you to be an honest person. Now someone comes to me and accuses you of a dishonest deed or accuses you of lying about someone else. You, of course claim to be innocent of the charge. It is your word against his. He says he saw you do something or caught you in a lie, and you say it is a false charge. All I have to go on is that for all the years I have known you, you have always been honest and I have never known you to lie. What he is charging you with is totally out of character where you are concerned. Naturally, I am not going to believe the accusation, because based upon what I know, I just don't believe it is true. Basically I have "faith" in your character and the person I have always known you to be.

Now, I don't have proof, but I do have evidence, right? Is it illogical for me in that scenario to believe you over the one who accuses you? Isn't it entirely logical that I would base my decision on the fact that I trust (have faith in) your character?

[systemstrike_7]

But then you have to take into account the motif of the accusor. Is there any benefit for the accusor by proving me a liar? Why would the accusor make such a bold claim, merely for the fun of it? You see, if you have faith in me, it is only because you cannot answer the question. Well, I want the answer, therefore, I must look past this thin wall of faith.

[Guest shiloh357]

But then you have to take into account the motif of the accusor. Is there any benefit for the accusor by proving me a liar? Why would the accusor make such a bold claim, merely for the fun of it? You see, if you have faith in me, it is only because you cannot answer the question. Well, I want the answer, therefore, I must look past this thin wall of faith.

I understand that, but that is beside the point. You said that faith is man's inablility to answer a problem logically. I demonstrated that true faith is not illogical. True faith is built on observable evidence. Faith is not proof, and I don't think it is wise for anyone to claim they can "prove" the Bible, or "prove" the existance of God. My point is that belief God as revealed in the Bible is not some blind mindless belief based upon nothing.

The motive behind the accusation or any benefit the accusor might get is for the most part irrelevant to the analogy. The point was that the accusor could not prove that you were lying and it was a word-versus-word situation. I have to decide with what evidence I have available what I would believe. Belief based upon evidence is not illogical.

You see, if you have faith in me, it is only because you cannot answer the question.

I could did answer the question. In the analogy I offered, I made a decision. Was it the right decision? Was it the right answer? Well time would tell, but the decision was made, and the question was answered.

[systemstrike_7]

Well, you make very good points.

But I'm afraid that this has turned our debate to a "stop" position.

You see faith in one light, while I see faith in a completely different light.

I hope you can agree to disagree with me.