John 14 and the New Jerusalem

[HAZARD]

The bride the Lamb's Wife (Rev. 21:2; 19-20).

This is one of the many names the city is called in Scripture. It is called this because the city will be the eternal home of all the redeemed where they will live in eternal union with God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, and faithful angels. The redeemed inhabitants have been purchased by the blood of Christ. They will become the inhabitants of that city through His redemption. All the redeemed are united to Christ and therefore are spoken of even as married to Him.

...but that's an interpretation.

_____________________________________________________________________

No, Its not an interpretation at all. There are many names mentioned for the city and they are all significant and express various ideas concerning the capital of the universe (Rev. 3:12; 21:2; 9-10; John 14L1-3; Heb. 12;22-23).

These names are as follows:

The New Jerusalem (Rev. 3;12; 21:2 The word "New" here simply means fresh, clean, pure, and new in appearance by the presence of God.

The Holy City (Rev. 21:2; 22:19)The word "Holy" means it is a holy city consecrated to the holiness of God and all social systems in the universe.

The Bride, the Lambs Wife (Rev. 21:2, 19-20) as i mentioned above.

The Tabernacle of God (Rev. 13:6; 15:5; 21;3). The City is called by this name because it is the place of God's Throne and where He personally lives and reigns.

The Great City (Rev. 21:10). It is also called by this name because it is the largest, most magnificient, and wonderful city in the whole creation. It is the universal capital of our great God.

The Heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12:22-23). This name portrays the fact that the city is in Heaven; that is, it is an Heavenly city and not an Earthly one. There is an heavenly city called Jerusalem and there is an earthly city also by that name. The earthly Jerusalem will be the headquarters of Christ and His reign on the Earth and the seat of the world government and the heavenly Jerusalem is the capital of the whole universe. Paul speaks of the Jerusalem that is above as being free and the mother of us all; that is, we are born again by God who lives and reigns in the Heavenly Jerusalem (Galatians 4:19-31).

The City of the Living God (Heb. 12:22-23). This expresses the truth that the New Jerusalem belongs to God, the living God, and He owns it as well as all other parts of His vast creations.

My Fathers House (John 14:1-3). Here the New Jerusalem is called by Jesus , "My Fathers House." Jesus speaks of it containing many mansions. Not only are there many mansions, as shown before in anotherpost, streets, fountains of water, rivers, furniture, and other material things that make a city a real place for people to live, as much as any city on the Earth.

Many Bible students argue that there is no real city with mansions in Heaven. They say that the saints are the mansions referred to by Jesus. They cannot seem to be able to believe in a real material city with streets, homes, fountains, and other things that make real living for the heavenly inhabitants. The Bible is very clear on the subject, but if some men choose to be ignorant on any Bible question, they will simply have to remain ignorant (1 Cor. 14:38). Many men have been taught that the more mysterious and spiritualized the Bible and God can be made the more receptive they should be to such teachings.

The description of the city, the New Jesusalem, is too detailed to spiritualize it and do away with the literal meaning of a real city, so we must be sensible and take the Bible as it was intended to be read. If it says there is a real city in Heaven let us believe that God knows what He is talking about. He should know whether there is a city or not since He made all things and since He lives in Heaven. If we cannot believe what God says on this question we cannot believe Him on other questions and the rejection of any one thing that God says is to make Him a liar and unreliable in what He says on all other questions.

You wrote: "Did you happen to read the articles I referenced?"

Yes, I started to read it and I cannot accept the fact that men spiritualize these things away, and so I stopped reading it. Thanks anyway for the link.

[mikehev]

Heaven is Heaven because Jesus is there and we will be with Him.

I was deployed to Iraq back in 04 and am there again now(please keep my fiance and I in your prayers). When I came back to my home town, Jacksonville Florida...it was a literal city. The airport there was nicer than the airport in Iraq. The people were nicer....there was air conditioning, carpeted floors, better weather, nice buildings and structures in comparison to where I had been....but none of this was on my mind. All I cared about was seeing my family. The important thing was not that Jacksonville was nicer than Iraq....the important thing was that I was with my Dad and Mom again.

I think Heaven is the same way. It is a literal place that is alot nicer than this place. The important thing is not the place though....The important thing is that we will be by the Lord Jesus' side.

[Ovedya]

No, Its not an interpretation at all. There are many names mentioned for the city and they are all significant and express various ideas concerning the capital of the universe (Rev. 3:12; 21:2; 9-10; John 14L1-3; Heb. 12;22-23).

These names are as follows:

The New Jerusalem (Rev. 3;12; 21:2 The word "New" here simply means fresh, clean, pure, and new in appearance by the presence of God.

The Holy City (Rev. 21:2; 22:19)The word "Holy" means it is a holy city consecrated to the holiness of God and all social systems in the universe.

The Bride, the Lambs Wife (Rev. 21:2, 19-20) as i mentioned above.

The Tabernacle of God (Rev. 13:6; 15:5; 21;3). The City is called by this name because it is the place of God's Throne and where He personally lives and reigns.

The Great City (Rev. 21:10). It is also called by this name because it is the largest, most magnificient, and wonderful city in the whole creation. It is the universal capital of our great God.

The Heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12:22-23). This name portrays the fact that the city is in Heaven; that is, it is an Heavenly city and not an Earthly one. There is an heavenly city called Jerusalem and there is an earthly city also by that name. The earthly Jerusalem will be the headquarters of Christ and His reign on the Earth and the seat of the world government and the heavenly Jerusalem is the capital of the whole universe. Paul speaks of the Jerusalem that is above as being free and the mother of us all; that is, we are born again by God who lives and reigns in the Heavenly Jerusalem (Galatians 4:19-31).

The City of the Living God (Heb. 12:22-23). This expresses the truth that the New Jerusalem belongs to God, the living God, and He owns it as well as all other parts of His vast creations.

Whenever you use the word "means" you are providing an interpretation. You are taking information and providing a definition or an explanation for it. All of the above are your interpretations, you explanations of these terms. If the Bible were so self-explanitory it wouldn't need your interpretations. Obviously your position in this thread requires that you take certain verses and tie them together using interpretation.

My Fathers House (John 14:1-3). Here the New Jerusalem is called by Jesus , "My Fathers House." Jesus speaks of it containing many mansions. Not only are there many mansions, as shown before in anotherpost, streets, fountains of water, rivers, furniture, and other material things that make a city a real place for people to live, as much as any city on the Earth.

This is your interpretation of John 14:1-3. However, nowhere in this entire chapter does Jesus mention the New Jerusalem. Therefore you have added it as part of your interpretation. In fact, if you examine John 14, the Lord Jesus does not speak of the New Jerusalem, nor does He imply it. Verse two of that passage is tied directly in context with verse 23, in which Jesus says that the "abodes" (Which is the proper translation of the word) are the believers. So here the Bible provides its own clear interpretation, and it does not require any further addition to its meaning.

The Greek word "Mone" (transliterated) is the noun form of the verb "Meno," which means "to remain in place," or, "to be present continually." This form of the word is only used twice in the New Testament, in John 14:2 and in verse 23. Therefore, if verse 23 reads, "abode" than verse 2 should logically also read, "abode" in the translations. Unfortunately in many translations one is traslated "mansions" while the other is translated "abode." If Christ and the Father come to make an "abode" within the believers, then certainly He is not making a "mansion" in them. An abode is simply a place of dwelling. Christ and the Father come to dwell within the believers to be their life and their source. This dwelling takes place in the human spirit, which is the vessel to contain the life of God (Rom. 9:23; 2 Cor. 4:7; 2 Tim. 2:20)

Many Bible students argue that there is no real city with mansions in Heaven. They say that the saints are the mansions referred to by Jesus. They cannot seem to be able to believe in a real material city with streets, homes, fountains, and other things that make real living for the heavenly inhabitants. The Bible is very clear on the subject, but if some men choose to be ignorant on any Bible question, they will simply have to remain ignorant (1 Cor. 14:38). Many men have been taught that the more mysterious and spiritualized the Bible and God can be made the more receptive they should be to such teachings.

So the "many Bible students" are all wrong to interpret John 14 in the same way that the passage cleary shows? I suppose then that only those few non-Bible students are right?

Actually, the popular traditional interpretation is that there are actual mansions, as you have written here, but actually that's not the case according to the clear revelation of Scripture. The article I referenced addresses the cutural aspect of this erroneous teaching.

The description of the city, the New Jesusalem, is too detailed to spiritualize it and do away with the literal meaning of a real city, so we must be sensible and take the Bible as it was intended to be read. If it says there is a real city in Heaven let us believe that God knows what He is talking about. He should know whether there is a city or not since He made all things and since He lives in Heaven. If we cannot believe what God says on this question we cannot believe Him on other questions and the rejection of any one thing that God says is to make Him a liar and unreliable in what He says on all other questions.

There is also a detailed description of the Lord Jesus in Revelation 1. Are His feet truly made of bronze? Is His voice truly the sound of rushing waters? Does He truly have a two-edged sword proceeding from His mouth? When the book of Revelation says that the Lord Jesus is the Lamb of God, is He really a lamb? I think that most readers of this book would agree that these are signs only and representative of things that are truly deeper and more significant; just as the law and the prophets were a shadow of better things (Heb. 10:1; 8:5; Col. 2:17). Things that are given as "signs" are intended as representations of deeper and more significant things. It is for this reason that readers need first to be in spirit (Rev. 1:10) and also to "have an ear to hear" what the Spirit is saying to the churches (Rev. 2:7;

You wrote: "Did you happen to read the articles I referenced?"

Yes, I started to read it and I cannot accept the fact that men spiritualize these things away, and so I stopped reading it. Thanks anyway for the link.

What you perceive as being "spiritualized away" never existed in reality in the first place. Essentially this is telling me that you would rather receive the fleshly interpretations over the spiritual. You would rather live in a city composed of all the things considered precious and valuable to man, rather than attempting to understand the deep spiritual significance of the New Jerusalem and all of its parts individually.

Please consdier the following critique from the same journal I cited earlier which I believe is along the same lines:

"...

A Divine Revelation of Heaven

weaves a fanciful description of heaven. The author claims to have been repeatedly transported there when visited by Jesus between 2:00 and 5:00 in the morning. The first heavenly visitation is described as follows:

At two o'clock in the morning, a mighty angel stood beside my bed. Jesus Christ was standing behind the angel.... The mighty messenger of God said, "God has given me a special mission. I am sent here to take you to heaven and to show you parts of it."

After a moment, he spoke again, "Come and see the glory of God."

At once I was supernaturally transported from my home and found myself standing outside one of the gates of heaven with the heavenly angel. (16-17

The book then describes a suptuous scene of material wonders such as splendorous pearls, exquisite diamonds, hair "like spun gold" (18), a golden book, beautiful music, an incomparable landscape, lush greenery and vegetation, horses that bow their knees and praise the Lord, and innumerable mansions (18-24). It declares that to live there should be "the focus of our hopes and desires" and that "heaven is a land of dreams come true!" (29-30). Such a view of heaven only incites the desires of the flesh and of the mind.

The apostle Paul had a very different focus and desire. He testified, "But what things were gains to me, these things I have accounted as loss on account of Christ...that I may gain Christ" (Phil. 3:7-8, emphasis added). With purposeful consistency, the Bible assures us that our inheritance is the Triune God and that He alone should be our daily focus and desire. Our inheritance is not a physical reward of heavenly splendor, but God Himself. Since God is our ultimate destiny, He likewise should be the object of our pursuit in the present. If we pattern our living and seeking after Paul, who pusued Christ single-mindedly (v. 12), we will be safeguarded from spiritual deviation."

[HAZARD]

Heaven is Heaven because Jesus is there and we will be with Him.

I was deployed to Iraq back in 04 and am there again now(please keep my fiance and I in your prayers). When I came back to my home town, Jacksonville Florida...it was a literal city. The airport there was nicer than the airport in Iraq. The people were nicer....there was air conditioning, carpeted floors, better weather, nice buildings and structures in comparison to where I had been....but none of this was on my mind. All I cared about was seeing my family. The important thing was not that Jacksonville was nicer than Iraq....the important thing was that I was with my Dad and Mom again.

I think Heaven is the same way. It is a literal place that is alot nicer than this place. The important thing is not the place though....The important thing is that we will be by the Lord Jesus' side.

Hi Mikehev'

Thank you for your response. I agree with you. The Bible teaches; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" Now if people wish to spiritualize that away, that's their business. The Bible also teaches the Heavens and the Earth are inhabited; "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitents of the Earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unot you, having great wrath, because he knoweth he hath but a short time" (Rev. 12:12).

I will pray God keep's you and your fiance safe and well.

Haz.

[Floatingaxe]

OY! Some people are going to be greatly surprised when they see that Heaven is a place for our new bodies to reside and rule forever! Our earth is a mere shadow of what will be there for us.

[Ovedya]

...Heaven is a place for our new bodies to reside and rule forever!

Where is that in the Scriptures?

[HAZARD]

...Heaven is a place for our new bodies to reside and rule forever!

Where is that in the Scriptures?

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Rev. 1"6).

Glorified saints are to reign as "kings and priests" on the earth forever, when Christ returns to set up God's kingdom here, and not in Heaven. (Rev. 5:10). When Christ returnes He will put down all rebellion and set up God's kingdom on the earth during the Millennium. New Jerusalem will be set up on the Earth after the Millennium and then the saints will rule under Christ and the Father here on the earth forever. "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Rev. 5:10).

[Floatingaxe]

If you read scripture, you know that we receive new bodies...the dead in Christ shall rise, mortal flesh shall put on immortality. Job himself rejoiced in the fact that "in my flesh I will see God." (Job 19:26) They will be perfect bodies which emit glory...shine!(Matt 13:43; Daniel 12:3)

As far as the rest of the quote...we will be ruling with Christ also (Rev 22:5), not losing any of our identities, receivng new names and all! (Isaiah 62:2; Rev 2:17; 3:12)

Hallelujah!

[Ovedya]

"....and we shall reign on the earth"

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 3:12

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.