Dinah

[Guest pixy]

I've been reading Genesis, Chapter 34... and I'm having a difficult time getting my mind around it all... So, I'm just going to toss some questions out there I have have and see what people think.

1) So, was Dinah really raped? My NIV uses the word violated. Is that really the same thing? It confuses me because it says that Shechem's heart was drawn to Dinah and that he loved her and spoke tenderly to her. How could he be raping her and being tender both???

2) God is not mentioned in this chapter at all, which is a bit odd... Do you think that there is significance in that? Or, would I just be way over-analyzing the whole thing by thinking it's significant in some way? I know that some scholars would compare this to other like passages, where God's name is also absent, and draw some comparisons there, but is that really a valid way to look at this?

3) Was Dinah being held hostage?

4) Why does Dinah have such a passive role in the scripture? It's like she's just kind of there and everything is happening all around her, but like she's not really a part of it all, you know? It just seems odd to me.

5) This chapter seems to not really be focussing on what's happening to Dinah, but more on the response to it. The response even seems kind of extreme to me. Yet, there isn't really any judgement passed about what Dinah's brothers did, or anything there about it, other than just this historical telling of it. I feel like I'm missing something--that I should be getting more out of it than that. I keep waiting for the "moral of the story" to jump out at me, but it's not.

I think I had more questions than that, but I can't remember. I have a headache. I might have to come back and edit this later.

[LightofJesus]

For one thing they were not married, and obviously this is a very big crime which went against their law. They were not to cross ethnics. Plus the biggest thing to lay with each other not married, unheard of to do such a thing, in those days this meant the woman is no longer desireable for marriage.

[Leonard]

The Hebrew text seems to simply show us two young people who fall in love, and fall into the sin of fornication before marriage. The young man acts very honorably, desiring to marry the girl.

The Bible text NOWHERE indicates this was something on the order of a forcible rape.

Her brothers respond with anger and murder. It's really a very brutal story.

[firehill]

31 But they replied, "Should he have treated our sister like a prostitute?"

He shouldn't have treated Dinah like a prostitute. She couldn't have been happy about it.

[Guest pixy]

The Hebrew text seems to simply show us two young people who fall in love, and fall into the sin of fornication before marriage. The young man acts very honorably, desiring to marry the girl.

The Bible text NOWHERE indicates this was something on the order of a forcible rape.

Her brothers respond with anger and murder. It's really a very brutal story.

That's kind of the vibe that I got from it too, but everybody I've asked outside of Worthy thinks I'm nuts for questioning the common interpretation of this passage.

[nebula]

4) Why does Dinah have such a passive role in the scripture? It's like she's just kind of there and everything is happening all around her, but like she's not really a part of it all, you know? It just seems odd to me.

Hi, pixy!

One thing we all need to understand when reading the Bible is that it is not Western literature. It is Mid-Eastern. For instance, in Western literature the story is often told through the eyes of a character. You may notice that the Bible does not tell its accounts this way. What is written chronicles key events in the peoples' lives. Obviously, this event had significance.

If I recall, there is a mention that Jacob had daughters, yet there is not mention of who they are, when they were born, or to which m other they were born. Dinah is only mentnioned because of what happened to her.

5) This chapter seems to not really be focussing on what's happening to Dinah, but more on the response to it. The response even seems kind of extreme to me. Yet, there isn't really any judgement passed about what Dinah's brothers did, or anything there about it, other than just this historical telling of it. I feel like I'm missing something--that I should be getting more out of it than that. I keep waiting for the "moral of the story" to jump out at me, but it's not.

I'm not sure what the moral of this particular story is as well. However, in context, it helps shape the image surrounding Jacob's sons. It is a very indepth study though, one which I would have difficulty summarizing in a paragraph.

But as was mentioned before, there is a need to keep the cultural context in mind. In a sense, though, the whole family was punished, if I recall, for they had to leave the area.

Pray the Hohly Spirit to open your eyes to the message He means for you to learn from this.

[Guest pixy]

31 But they replied, "Should he have treated our sister like a prostitute?"

He shouldn't have treated Dinah like a prostitute. She couldn't have been happy about it.

At first glance, that is what I thought also. But, and this is what kinda drives me nuts about this passage... That's not Dinah saying she was treated like a prostitute; it's her brothers that are saying that. Could they really even have known really what went on "behind closed doors"?

And really, prostitution can't be equated with forcible rape. If I give this verse some deeper thought, in fact, I would say that it supports the interpretation that Dinah wasn't actually raped. It would imply to me, that Dinah wanted to have sex, but that Shecham shouldn't have taken advantage of that; he should have had some self control.

[AnotherTraveler]

Not every story on the Old Testament reflects the best of the participants, and this story is no exception. It appears that the brothers hated, and Dinah's situation became the justification for exacting wrath against the people that were already probably hated.

Sex before marriage was a crime (still is, we call it sin, but it is a crime). It seems to be a tragic love story mixed with self-righteous wrath, and the result is a tragic error for all concerned.

We only get tiny glimpses of tribal life in the family of Jacob, and we are left with lots of guesses but no absolute facts as to what their culture and customs were at that point in their history.

Here in the USA, so many things that once were actually arrestable crimes are now common behaviour, but the Word of God does not change, and in the judgement, local customs and culture will not be the final answer to what is or is not right.

[EricH]

In the Hebrew the text says literally:

1. He took her

2. He lay with her

3. He defiled her (literally humbled her).

There does not seem to me to be anything mutual about it. It was a forced encounter that left her defiled and humbled

[HAZARD]

Judging from the age of Judah and Joseph, Dinah was about 14 or 15 years old at the time. When Shechem saw her he lusted after her and he "lay with her and defiled her," He humbled her. This is the first recorded rape.

"And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jac'ob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel." He won her heart by lovemaking and flattery.

In verse 13, "And the sons of Jac'ob answered Schechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he hath defiled Dinah their sister." The sons of Jacob never did intend to give their sister to Shechem. This was Satan's first atempt to defile a virgin in Israel. It was a threat to God's plan that His Son should come through one of Israels virgins (Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18-25).

Verse 14, "And they said unto them, We cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumsuced; for that were a reproach to us." This reply was in harmony with Israel's calling to be a separated people to represent God in His plan (12:1-3; 21: 12; 24: 3; 28:1, 6; Ex. 34:12-16; Num. 23:9; Deut. 7:3-4; Josh. 23:12; Ezra 9:10).