Sinful passions aroused by the law

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Hello sagz

I wonder after reading this, that if God had not told Adam to "not eat from the tree of knwledge of good and evil," would Adam have eaten? Would it even have crossed his mind? I don't know.

I am reminded of a couple of life examples...

A child in the kitchen with a boiling pot of water on the stove. You say to the child, "Now don't touch that pot, it will burn you really bad!"

What does the child do? Looks at the pot, and you can see in their mind that they are thinking...I wonder if that is true. I should touch the pot to see if that is true...

A good observation Bro.

Lets look at this verse:

Romans 16:19

For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil.

When sin is what we dwell on all we do is think of sin and the more you think of sin the more you tend to sin. But if you focus on what is good then you tend to do good.

Although I get depressed about sinning I am more convicted in my conscience about the good I fail to do rather than the sin I do. We should be wise in the ways of Good and simple in ways of evil.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[sagz4Christ]

Romans 16:19

For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil.

When sin is what we dwell on all we do is think of sin and the more you think of sin the more you tend to sin. But if you focus on what is good then you tend to do good.

reminds me of the power of positivity!

Phillipians 4

4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Dwell on THAT!

and don't forget....

All Praise the Ancient of Days

~serving Christ in humility

[Guest tiggr]

Praise the Lord, I hope that I dont get to far off the topic here but if I do please forgive me.

First every human being is born with a sinful nature, look at what David said in Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. We cannot escape that. No one teaches their child to lie but yet if you have a two year old child who does something wrong and you correct that child, the next time he/she does that same deed when you ask them if they did it their first response is no. They may eventually tell you the truth but not at first it is something that we are born with.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,

I dont beleive that sin is a separate entity, and satan can not make us commit sin, he can tempt us and he uses our sinful nature to keep us from God.

As far as the law and commandments and Adam and Eve this comes to mind.

1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. If we read the account we see that Eve had not been created when God gave Adam the command.

Satan must have known what God had commanded Adam not to do. And by knowing what God had spoken to Adam he also knew what needed to be done in order to get man to fall away from God (disobey). Eve being in the wrong place at the wrong time (for whatever reason) was decieved by satan.

Satan first called into question what God had commanded

Gen 2:16-17

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now look at what satan said he changed the wording to make it appear as though God was holding back from them

Gen 3:1

And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Eve responded by adding to what God had said Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Satan saw his chance and went from questioning God's word to disputing it

Gen 3:4-5

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eve was not forced to sin but was tempted and decieved into it but Adam was not, he knew what he was doing and did it willingly. And when it was all said and done Adam did not blame the woman but if you look at the scripture he blamed God Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

So I guess what I'm trying say is that when the law came about satan also knew the law and therefore he used it and manipulated it to decieve many.

Oh well its to late for me any way

g-night

[His son]

His son

Thanks for your post. I'm not so sure what you mean by sins of ignorance although maybe Paul is saying something about this in verse 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

I like what you said about the law being a fence on both sides of the narrow road. I have referred to it as the plumbline, the absoultely straight and true line by which all else is measured by and found to be crooked....

I agree also that a person in sin is one of Satan's subjects, bound, until deliverance by Christ.

Dad Ernie:

Thank you for the commentaries. I read them through and they gave a pretty general picture of this chapter which is always helpful to have an overview.

What I specifically want to address here are the portions of scripture that I outlined in bold.

It almost makes it sounds like sin is an entity here who took great opportunity and occasion through the commandment.

It sounds like the Law gave Satan more occasion and opportunity to decieve and produce death (kill). In other words, the Law empowered Satan. Can you see what I am trying to get at?

I believe that the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is possibly a type of the Law, and the serpent a type of sin.

Think of these verses as if Adam were speaking rather than Paul.

7:9 -

I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

7:10 -

And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

7:11 -

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

7:12 -

Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

7:13 -

Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Yes Paul is talking about that, and here are more. God is so pure, and just, He does not hold anyone acountable for what they don't comprehend.

Acts 3:17

17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

(KJV)

Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

(KJV)

Eph 4:18

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

(KJV)

1 Pet 1:14

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

(KJV)

I know there are some also in the Old testament bu couldn't find them.

[OneAccord]

Praise the Lord, I hope that I dont get to far off the topic here but if I do please forgive me.

First every human being is born with a sinful nature, look at what David said in Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. We cannot escape that. No one teaches their child to lie but yet if you have a two year old child who does something wrong and you correct that child, the next time he/she does that same deed when you ask them if they did it their first response is no. They may eventually tell you the truth but not at first it is something that we are born with.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,

I dont beleive that sin is a separate entity, and satan can not make us commit sin, he can tempt us and he uses our sinful nature to keep us from God.

As far as the law and commandments and Adam and Eve this comes to mind.

1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. If we read the account we see that Eve had not been created when God gave Adam the command.

Satan must have known what God had commanded Adam not to do. And by knowing what God had spoken to Adam he also knew what needed to be done in order to get man to fall away from God (disobey). Eve being in the wrong place at the wrong time (for whatever reason) was decieved by satan.

Satan first called into question what God had commanded

Gen 2:16-17

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now look at what satan said he changed the wording to make it appear as though God was holding back from them

Gen 3:1

And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Eve responded by adding to what God had said Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Satan saw his chance and went from questioning God's word to disputing it

Gen 3:4-5

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eve was not forced to sin but was tempted and decieved into it but Adam was not, he knew what he was doing and did it willingly. And when it was all said and done Adam did not blame the woman but if you look at the scripture he blamed God Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

So I guess what I'm trying say is that when the law came about satan also knew the law and therefore he used it and manipulated it to decieve many.

Oh well its to late for me any way

g-night

Tigr:

You're not off topic here at all, but right on track exactly.

Your summary statement, that Satan knew the law and used it to manipulate and decieve is at the heart of the bold verses in discussion.

It would seem that Satan and Sin are partners in crime here. And that Sin and Law are opposing forces, complete opposites.

The Law is absolutely holy and just and good. So that makes Sin unholy and unjust and evil.

Humans living in the sin nature are bound to sin, are in bondage to sin, and held prisoner by sin. And Satan is their master, and they serve Satan, even while trying to keep the law. The more they try to keep the law, the more exceedingly sinful sin becomes.

The law cannot give life, it cannot save one from sin's prison. It can only serve as a standard or measuring line of perfection and holiness that no one can measure up to.

Outside of the perfection of the Law is Sin, and sin is death. That's why we need a Saviour. And grace.

[OneAccord]

Here is another verse that co-relates to this study:

Ephesians 2:15

Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in the ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two [Jews and Gentiles], thus making peace...

Here Paul seems to be calling the law of commandments the enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles, the chosen and the heathen if you will.

Where else do we see this word enmity? In Genesis 3:15. The Lord here is cursing the serpent, who decieved Eve by the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden.

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed........

Now we see in Eph 2:15 that Jesus abolished in His flesh the enmity.

[Guest idolsmasher]

I think the emnity was between the law and man's redemption. There was no grace in the law itself. In other words, it wasn't God's plan for the redemption of mankind and was basically employed by God to show man his guilt and unrighteousness and need for the forgiveness and grace of God. I don't think in the scriptures it means enmity between Jew and gentile, although it probably has been to some degree through legalistic interpretation.

[OneAccord]

I don't think in the scriptures it means enmity between Jew and gentile, although it probably has been to some degree through legalistic interpretation.

The Jewish interpretation of the law, the talmud, certainly fueled enmity and still does.

Scripturally, how do you interpret this Ephesians verse? ....enmity, that is, the law of commandments.....

[wordsower]

One Accord,

I think it all has to do with human nature, the flesh wars against the spirit. If you are on a diet that requires you to eat no graham crackers you start craving graham crackers even though you may not really even like them, it's just that they are forbidden so now they seem so desirable.

We, as humans do not want to do good, our flesh wars against us and our own bodies are bodies of death.

Now, if you were put into an arranged marriage by your parents or if you had to get married to someone you didn't love for some reason, you wouldn't feel an emotional attachment to that person. You might go along because you felt you had to but it wouldn't be the same as if you met and fell in love with someone. If you truly loved someone you would want to please them, do everything you could for them, you would not want to turn to another or do anything to jeopardize the bond you share.

With the law, the Israelites were commanded to do things but had no heart to do them. They had hearts of stone. They did them or died, they just had to, so they did. It was all to point to that relationship that could only come through the blood of Jesus. They were separated from God by a veil. Symbolic in the sanctuary but a real divide in the separation of God from man that started when Adam sinned.

With the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, we are in a since married with Christ, we are in Him and He in us. We do what we do because we love Him and His mind is in us and we are changed!

The law taught men how to love God and love their neighbor, Jesus made the connection again possible so that we could receive the love of God and be in fellowship again with our creator and the Holy Spirit helps us to know what is right in the inner man instead of by the law.

He replaced the heart of stone (representing the law) with a fleshly heart (representing the Spirit in us)

Praise His Holy Name! The Cross bridged the gap for us! We don't need a list of do's and don'ts, we have relationship!

[tsth]

The law cannot give life, it cannot save one from sin's prison.  It can only serve as a standard or measuring line of perfection and holiness that no one can measure up to.

Outside of the perfection of the Law is Sin, and sin is death.  That's why we need a Saviour. And grace.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Ro 2:27 -

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

In His Love,

Suzanne