Wakeup Church

[Guest lnj]

I just finished reading John 17 a few minutes ago and wrote about it in response to a post about "truth" on the Prophecy forum. So, this is a confirmation, I believe, that God is saying we need to be sanctified by the truth of God's Word and we need to be unified or we have lost our "saltiness" and can no longer be that light to the world.

Yeshua isn't saying that we need to be sanctified by a knowledge of truth. He is saying we need to be truely sanctified.

It isn't about what we "think" is true....it's about how faith is expressed in righteous deeds.

yod,

I'm not exactly sure your point. Here is the quote from John 17:17:

"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."

NIV Commentary:

Sanctify means "to set apart," usually for some specially good purpose or use; its derivative meaning thus becomes "dedicate" or "consecrate." Believers are so changed by the working of God's Word in their lives that they are separated from evil and to God. This new devotion, which results in separation from evil, produces purification of life and consecration to God's service. Since the Word of God is truth, it provides the unchanging standard for the course and character of life. The form of the expression "your word" raises the possibility that Jesus may be referring to himself. He has said that he is "the truth"; as the Logos of God he embodies truth in its totality."

Would you agree with that?

What I see lacking from many Churches and Christians alike(coincidence here?) is a lack of LOVE. Genuine Love that flows from God Himself. I have only met a handful of Spirit Filled Followers Of Christ and I believe that this lack Of God's LOVE is what is tearing down the foundations of the Western Churches. Love covers a multitude of Sin, but do we REALLY possess that TRUE LOVE? The question of CAN YOU LOVE SOMEONE AND NOT LIKE THEM? ....Should that really have to be asked? LNJ

[Guest stevej]

PBob,

Churches and denominations are such that inspite of claims of independance are far to tied to programs and building funds and seeing who can outdo the other. Tho i do see some change in the last 10 years..by far the lost are somewhere in the middle of the priorities list for many churches.

[Guest yod]

I just finished reading John 17 a few minutes ago and wrote about it in response to a post about "truth" on the Prophecy forum. So, this is a confirmation, I believe, that God is saying we need to be sanctified by the truth of God's Word and we need to be unified or we have lost our "saltiness" and can no longer be that light to the world.

Yeshua isn't saying that we need to be sanctified by a knowledge of truth. He is saying we need to be truely sanctified.

It isn't about what we "think" is true....it's about how faith is expressed in righteous deeds.

yod,

I'm not exactly sure your point. Here is the quote from John 17:17:

"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."

all I'm saying is this:

A "knowledge" of the truth doesn't sanctify you.

Sanctification is achieved by putting that knowledge into action. In other words, it is how we respond to the truth that makes one sanctified.

[Iryssa]

I just finished reading John 17 a few minutes ago and wrote about it in response to a post about "truth" on the Prophecy forum. So, this is a confirmation, I believe, that God is saying we need to be sanctified by the truth of God's Word and we need to be unified or we have lost our "saltiness" and can no longer be that light to the world.

Yeshua isn't saying that we need to be sanctified by a knowledge of truth. He is saying we need to be truely sanctified.

It isn't about what we "think" is true....it's about how faith is expressed in righteous deeds.

yod,

I'm not exactly sure your point. Here is the quote from John 17:17:

"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."

all I'm saying is this:

A "knowledge" of the truth doesn't sanctify you.

Sanctification is achieved by putting that knowledge into action. In other words, it is how we respond to the truth that makes one sanctified.

Still, you need to have the knowledge before you can put it into action.

[EricH]

Moved from the Controversial Forum to the General Discussion Forum so OP can respond to posts

[Christ's Free Servant]

Still, you need to have the knowledge before you can put it into action.

Yes, knowledge without action is not much good as is action apart from knowledge. The two go hand in hand. We have to know the truth, but in order for it to set us free, it must be at work within us and lived out through us. I think that is what it means to be sanctified by the truth, plus there is also the meaning of Jesus being "the truth" so it is him at work within us that results in our sancification. And, he is also "the Word."

[Iryssa]

I have a hard time sitting through contemporary services too, I have to say. My old church (I love the people in it dearly, to this day...I just don't think I could go back) followed this routine:

Singing

Special music/Offertory

One more song with the congregation

Prayer, done by a leader of some kind (changes every week, sometimes this is done right after the first group of songs, too) giving thanks for the offering, as well as addressing any prayer requests given by the congregation

Sermon...which goes on for about 45 min, ending with a prayer.

One more song.

The worst was when they'd forget to let us sit down for the prayer...there was this one person who would always forget to have us sit, and they'd go on FOREVER, repeating the phrase "And we just pray...and we just pray...and we just pray....and we just pray...and we just pray...and we just pray..."

Anyway, I digress...

The point is that I always felt rather disconnected with the service. Especially during the prayer and the special music...which is sad. I tried to involve myself, but really, I didn't want to be praying out loud and distracting people, and my thoughts run a lot faster than that person's mouth would *rueful grin* Also I didn't find there was much scripture reading outside of the sermon. Our senior pastor and our old youth pastor were both good at sermons that were , and when it wasn't a sermon of that sort they'd still be good at linking everything to scripture. If we had a guest preacher or the adult ministries preacher or someone else do it...yeah, not so much.

I went back for the Christmas Eve service this year...it was very nice, and my old youth pastor (who is now actualy the senior pastor) did the Christmas story...but I felt more disconnected even than before. I like the Anglican service now, where the congregation is involved a lot more, responding from the heart to almost everything said. We kneel or sit for prayer (most of us young 'uns kneel...some people sit, most I assume do it becasue it hurts to kneel), and we respond at the end of each section, as well as add our own requests (aloud or in silence) in the many opportunities given. There is also a lot of scripture involved in the service. Almost all the liturgy is right out of scripture, and we read a Psalm, a lesson from the OT, a lesson from the Epistles, and a part of the Gospel. I like that a lot.

[firehill]

The Body of Christ is done with playing Church.

[Zceiv]

I beleive many people are just "playing" church these days.

slowly the devil has snuck in and over time corrupted the body. by slowly excepting sins until we have become so tolerant of sin that we no longer have a problem with not speaking out about sin.

another point i'd like to stress is that most churches (at least in my area) teach love, love , love. I understand that love is a important part of christianity. but churches are stressing this point so much that Love is almost God. people need to relized there is a point to God's patience and forgivness and pretty soon Jesus will becoming back as a lion. people need to make sure their on the right side. also you dont get on the right side by just attending church.

[firehill]

I beleive many people are just "playing" church these days.

slowly the devil has snuck in and over time corrupted the body. by slowly excepting sins until we have become so tolerant of sin that we no longer have a problem with not speaking out about sin.

another point i'd like to stress is that most churches (at least in my area) teach love, love , love. I understand that love is a important part of christianity. but churches are stressing this point so much that Love is almost God. people need to relized there is a point to God's patience and forgivness and pretty soon Jesus will becoming back as a lion. people need to make sure their on the right side. also you dont get on the right side by just attending church.

Am fine with this post except that God IS Love.