Worthy News: CA: Gov. to seek insurance for all children - LA Times

[kat8585]

I never thought I'd agree with you on anything, forrestkc, but I do agree with the first paragraph of your post. It is mostly Democrats doing it, but some Republicans, including the president, are doing it, too. I still believe this is a major reason the Republicans lost power, and if they don't do differently, will lose the presidency too, and then we will lose our country, if we haven't already.

[forrestkc]

I never thought I'd agree with you on anything, forrestkc, but I do agree with the first paragraph of your post. It is mostly Democrats doing it, but some Republicans, including the president, are doing it, too. I still believe this is a major reason the Republicans lost power, and if they don't do differently, will lose the presidency too, and then we will lose our country, if we haven't already.

We won't lose our country. We will just have more hispanics in it. Democrats water down immigration laws for an entirely different reason the Republicans. Republicans do so to appease the business interests who want the cheap labor. Democrats do so to appease the hispanics in their constituency.

[Marnie]

Again forrestkc misrepresents what I have written.

I am not in the least opposed to LEGAL immigration, and I am not opposed to healthcare for everybody; only a monster would deny healthcare to a child! Incidentally, you cannot be denied essential healthcare no matter who you are. That statute is posted in every hospital in the land.

My father is a first generation American, so again, I have nothing but admiration and respect for those who follow the law, pay their dues and enter this country LEGALLY.

But you, like so many liberals, think it is somehow a divine right for everybody in (legal or not) America to have free healthcare, when in fact it is not. First, it is not free. I pay for it, you pay for it, every working American pays for healthcare for those who don't. You also seem to think it is the divine responsibility for me, for example, to pick up the tab for some stranger's healthcare. What nonsense. My divine responsibility for to myself, my family and those who I desire to and am able to help. I'd love to be able to help every hard luck case I see, but that's just impossible. Lastly, again, you liberals (and you are one) are pretty free with our money. The government is not G-d, it is not G-d's chosen instrument; the Church is, or at least it is supposed to be. You and those like you seem to think that a government program (Social Security, Medicare, etc) originates in the Mind of the Almighty. It does not. Enforced compassion in the form of oppressive taxation is no compassion at all. How much better would America be if, instead of paying upwards of 60% of our income out in taxes, we had most of our money to ourselves. Then we could truly do what we were called to do as believers; feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc. As it is now, the tax burden is so great for some of us that it cuts into our charitable giving. Surely that cannot be of G-d.

I know I have not gotten through to you forrestkc, I am sure you can whip out your slide rule and somehow come up with some kind of calculation that proves I am not paying enough of my fare share, or if we all just paid a percentage rate more, then the whole world could be insured. I am sorry that I don't live in that universe.

[kat8585]

Again forrestkc misrepresents what I have written.

I am not in the least opposed to LEGAL immigration, and I am not opposed to healthcare for everybody; only a monster would deny healthcare to a child! Incidentally, you cannot be denied essential healthcare no matter who you are. That statute is posted in every hospital in the land.

My father is a first generation American, so again, I have nothing but admiration and respect for those who follow the law, pay their dues and enter this country LEGALLY.

But you, like so many liberals, think it is somehow a divine right for everybody in (legal or not) America to have free healthcare, when in fact it is not. First, it is not free. I pay for it, you pay for it, every working American pays for healthcare for those who don't. You also seem to think it is the divine responsibility for me, for example, to pick up the tab for some stranger's healthcare. What nonsense. My divine responsibility for to myself, my family and those who I desire to and am able to help. I'd love to be able to help every hard luck case I see, but that's just impossible. Lastly, again, you liberals (and you are one) are pretty free with our money. The government is not G-d, it is not G-d's chosen instrument; the Church is, or at least it is supposed to be. You and those like you seem to think that a government program (Social Security, Medicare, etc) originates in the Mind of the Almighty. And is paid for with money that comes out of the air. It does not. Enforced compassion in the form of oppressive taxation is no compassion at all. How much better would America be if, instead of paying upwards of 60% of our income out in taxes, we had most of our money to ourselves. Then we could truly do what we were called to do as believers; feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc. As it is now, the tax burden is so great for some of us that it cuts into our charitable giving. Surely that cannot be of G-d.

I know I have not gotten through to you forrestkc, I am sure you can whip out your slide rule and somehow come up with some kind of calculation that proves I am not paying enough of my fare share, or if we all just paid a percentage rate more, then the whole world could be insured. I am sorry that I don't live in that universe.

Red highlighted, and green added by kat. You are so right, Marnie.

[Guest cwyan]

[sweetycakes]

We are now experiencing a similar problem here in the UK.

It seems, according to reliable reports, that the majority of people who come into this country, even if they are denied UK citizenship, simply melt away into the 'black economy', and are NOT deported. They are simply lost, and subsequently 'forgotten about'. A lot of these then join illegal marketing practices, be it drugs, people trafficking or whatever.

As well as that, Britain is now becoming a multi-cultural society, which it never used to be, unlike America.

I am not against any race. I am, however, against 'multi-culturalizm', when that means we have to accept whatever religions and practices these people bring to our shores.

Of course, we shouldn't deny medical treatment to anybody who needs it. But we should do more to prevent the influx of illegal immigrants, in my opinion.

[kat8585]

The point is not whether they should be here or not. They should not be here. Of course, if you want to guarantee a recession, then just up and deport all that labor over night. Just the same, we are not talking about providing healthcare to adults who illegally come here. We are talking about providing healthcare to children whose parents illegally came here. It would be immoral not to do so. A child on American soil is a child on American soil regardless of their nationality. I don't recall in the Gospels where Jesus required proper documentation of citizenship before healing anyone.

I am sorry that you resent the possibility of your tax dollars being used to provide health care to children, but for Arnold and most people it is simply a moral issue and as I pointed out earlier, for 400 million a year at the total cost of doing so, its drop in the bucket in a state like California anyway.

Edited January 8, 2007 by kat8585

[forrestkc]

Again forrestkc misrepresents what I have written.

I am not in the least opposed to LEGAL immigration, and I am not opposed to healthcare for everybody; only a monster would deny healthcare to a child! Incidentally, you cannot be denied essential healthcare no matter who you are. That statute is posted in every hospital in the land.

My father is a first generation American, so again, I have nothing but admiration and respect for those who follow the law, pay their dues and enter this country LEGALLY.

But you, like so many liberals, think it is somehow a divine right for everybody in (legal or not) America to have free healthcare, when in fact it is not. First, it is not free. I pay for it, you pay for it, every working American pays for healthcare for those who don't. You also seem to think it is the divine responsibility for me, for example, to pick up the tab for some stranger's healthcare. What nonsense. My divine responsibility for to myself, my family and those who I desire to and am able to help. I'd love to be able to help every hard luck case I see, but that's just impossible. Lastly, again, you liberals (and you are one) are pretty free with our money. The government is not G-d, it is not G-d's chosen instrument; the Church is, or at least it is supposed to be. You and those like you seem to think that a government program (Social Security, Medicare, etc) originates in the Mind of the Almighty. It does not. Enforced compassion in the form of oppressive taxation is no compassion at all. How much better would America be if, instead of paying upwards of 60% of our income out in taxes, we had most of our money to ourselves. Then we could truly do what we were called to do as believers; feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc. As it is now, the tax burden is so great for some of us that it cuts into our charitable giving. Surely that cannot be of G-d.

I know I have not gotten through to you forrestkc, I am sure you can whip out your slide rule and somehow come up with some kind of calculation that proves I am not paying enough of my fare share, or if we all just paid a percentage rate more, then the whole world could be insured. I am sorry that I don't live in that universe.

I think you must be under the impression that my family is not taxed much. We are taxed to death. We pay taxes on our income to the city, 2 states, and the Federal Government. We pay sales taxes, personal property taxes, and property taxes. I pay 15% of my income in payroll taxes. Of course, like everyone else, we pay taxes to put gas in our car. I also pay fees to fish, to put my canoe in the local lakes that I am already paying taxes for, and to fish the local lakes I am paying taxes for. I can't think of a single instance, other than while giving to charity, that money I earn or spend is not taxed and double taxed and triple taxed.

I don't like taxes any more than anyone else does. That is why I dont like sending hundreds of billions of our tax dollars on some social experiment in Iraq. I dont like politicians spending more on corporate welfare each year than they even spending on welfare. I don't politicians borrowing out of the money that I pay in to Social Security and Medicare for my parents and grandparents retirement and possibly if they dont go through it, part of my own. I don't like K-Street lobbyists authoring their own bills on the republican controlled congressional floor. I don't like the republican congress paying for the development of prescription drugs only to allow drug companies to gouge seniors for drugs that their own tax dollars paid to develop.

Inspite of all these abuses over the last few years in government, we live in a Republic, and the government is the arm and servant of the people and eventually we throw out people who do not represent our will much like we did back in November. If the people decide to pay for the health insurance of Children, then it is the people who have made that decision. It is based in their morals, not the governments as the government is still an arm of the people. The people of California, who by the way unlike most red states pay in more in federal income taxes than the recieve in return, reelected Arnold knowing that he would try to provide healthcare coverage for all impoverished children in California. Obviously they did so because they think it is the right thing to do. I think it is the right thing to do too. If they tried to do it in Kansas, and the state could afford it, I would be all for it because it is the right thing to do. If we were talking about health insurance for everyone, that would be different. I would not be for it because we can't afford it, thus it would not be practical.

You could reduce taxes to nothing, and you probably would not see much more charitable giving than you see now. Charitable giving is already a tax deduction, and the largest percentage of charitable giving already occurs amoung the wealthiest Americans just to get around the estate tax. As Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have both themselve said, most charitable giving in America is actually just a way to avoid the estate tax as much as possible, not out of the goodness of peoples hearts. In fact, out of the 200 billion dollars given to Charity in America last year, only about 10% actually went to programs to help the poor and less fortunate, the vast majority every year goes to arts and universities. It seems that we have figured out long ago in this country to trust our collective generosity much more than our individual generosity.