Gay Marriage or Civil Union?

[Smalcald]

I do not believe that being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex is a choice. Homosexual sex is fornication and is a sin however.

What you do with that temptation is the choice you must make. We are asking homosexual's to do something very hard, and that is to live a celibate life and pray for a removal of this temptation. I believe this is possible and with prayer and with forgiveness God will see them through, some will be able to be attracted to the opposite sex, some will never be granted this, but must live their entire life battling this temptation.

But very rarely do we ask this of other people who are living in sexual sin. Do we say to the person who cheated on his wife, then left her and re-married and thus is living in a state of unrepented adultery, no you must leave this adulterous second relationship and you have two choices be reconciled to your first wife or be celibate? I can name several major evangelists preaching today who cheated on their wives, left them which would be an unbiblical divorce, took up with a member of their congregation and are now preaching the word on TV with their "new" family.

So before we get so excited about the sin of gay sex and it is sin it is fornication, we should look at all sin and how we handle it.

[stevehut]

A POSSIBLE HOUSE CHURCH WHERE THEY COULD FEEL SAFE

Safe from what? Safe from repenting of their sin so they can be saved?

Steve

[stevehut]

1- I do not believe that being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex is a choice.

2- We are asking homosexual's to do something very hard, and that is to live a celibate life

3- But very rarely do we ask this of other people who are living in sexual sin.

1- So it's OK to desire to do something that's sinful to do? Nah, me no tink so.

2- Celibacy is not the answer, if a sinful compulsion remains: 1 Cor. 7:9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

If you have a sex drive, you should not suppress it. You should indulge it, within marriage. But what type of marriage? A marriage that does not require you to do msomething sinful.

4- Yup, and all the more reason not to ask it of homosexuals.

Steve

[PBob]

Yes, you will go to hell for being homosexual.

Do you believe that homosexuality is worse than other sins?

Steve

THEY (SIN) ALL GET YOU TO THE SAME PLACE... I WAS A RC AND THEY DIVIDE SINS INTO VENIAL AND MORTAL - VENIAL GETS YOU TO PURGATORY (WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE IN) AND MORTAL YOU GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. SINCE CHRIST DIED AND PAID THE ENTIRE PENALTY THERE IS NO NEED FOR PURGATORY - IF WE REPENT AND CONFESS (AGREE WITH GOD) CONCERNING OUR SIN THAN WE ARE FORGIVEN.

NOW, DOES IT TAKE 1 UNCONFESSED LIE OR 2 - STEALING A CANDY BAR OR A PENNY FROM A LITTLE OLD LADY. I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW ALL THINGS - BUT I AM SURE GOD IS JUST AND WILL DO THE RIGHT THING. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT WE SIT AROUND AND DEBATE WHAT SIN DESERVES WHAT PUNISHMENT DA DA DA .... NOW - IN OUR EYES SOME SINS ARE OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN OTHERS - MURDER VS A STRONG TAP ON THE HEAD IN ANGER - SEXUAL SIN ESPECIALLY INVOLVING CHILDREN - SOCIETY WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE AND DO WHAT SEEMS RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES - YOU KNOW IF THE WHOLE WORLD VOTED IN FAVOR OF SAYING THAT A LITTLE LIE IS NOT SIN - THAT WOULD NOT CHANGE, IN MY OPINION, GOD'S POSITION OR THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL A LIE.

JUST BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT APPROVES OR YOUR PASTOR FOR THAT MATTER IT DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US CONCERNING GOD'S LAWS.

JESUS SAID,(PARAPHASED) IF YOU LOOK AT HER IN LUST - YOU HAVE ALREADY COMMITTED ADULTERY - I AM PRETTY SURE THAT HE ALSO SAID IF YOU VIOLATE ONE OF THE COMMANDMENTS YOU HAVE VIOLATED THEM ALL...

THE ISSUE IS NOT WHAT IS THE GREATEST SIN THE REAL ISSUE IS HOW DO WE BRING THE LOVE OF CHRIST TO A DYING WORLD THAT SOME MIGHT BE SAVED...WHAT IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE?

[Smalcald]

1- I do not believe that being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex is a choice.

2- We are asking homosexual's to do something very hard, and that is to live a celibate life

3- But very rarely do we ask this of other people who are living in sexual sin.

1- So it's OK to desire to do something that's sinful to do? Nah, me no tink so.

2- Celibacy is not the answer, if a sinful compulsion remains: 1 Cor. 7:9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

If you have a sex drive, you should not suppress it. You should indulge it, within marriage. But what type of marriage? A marriage that does not require you to do msomething sinful.

4- Yup, and all the more reason not to ask it of homosexuals.

Steve

But you are confusing sin and temptation.

When we let our minds give in to temptation this is sin and then of course the act follows. Very few homosexuals will be freed from what is an inherent sinful sexual disorder. They must resist this temptation. However the LAST thing they should do is drag some unsuspecting women into a marriage and try to desire her when they don't, then we end up with things like we have just seen from Brother Haggard. If a homosexual is totally free of sexual temptation of other men or women, yes then they can look toward marriage. However if they are wrestling with homosexual temptations marriage will not solve those it will only hurt innocent people.

We all must suppress our sex drive throughout a good portion of our lives if we are to live as God wants. Celibacy is required of all Christians for long periods of our lives; I think this is why Christ and Paul both spoke so highly of the practice.

Do you honestly thing some young guy at age 15 says gee this would be great to be attracted to some other guy? No way, this is a deep disorder and obviously the practice is sinful, but we must look at ways to help these guys work with their disorder, and yes a big part of that is going to be practicing celibacy. If we don't practice sexual purity among ourselves it is highly to sit around and talk about the horror of homosexual sex. Yes it is sin, but so is sex outside of marriage, so is divorce so is living together. I see ALL of those things happening in the church right now. I say focus on our own sexual purity first, and yes continue to be strong that gay sex is sin, and hopefully we will have people like old pbob here can reach some of them.

[Smalcald]

I do not believe that being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex is a choice. Homosexual sex is fornication and is a sin however.

What you do with that temptation is the choice you must make. We are asking homosexual's to do something very hard, and that is to live a celibate life and pray for a removal of this temptation. I believe this is possible and with prayer and with forgiveness God will see them through, some will be able to be attracted to the opposite sex, some will never be granted this, but must live their entire life battling this temptation.

But very rarely do we ask this of other people who are living in sexual sin. Do we say to the person who cheated on his wife, then left her and re-married and thus is living in a state of unrepented adultery, no you must leave this adulterous second relationship and you have two choices be reconciled to your first wife or be celibate? I can name several major evangelists preaching today who cheated on their wives, left them which would be an unbiblical divorce, took up with a member of their congregation and are now preaching the word on TV with their "new" family.

So before we get so excited about the sin of gay sex and it is sin it is fornication, we should look at all sin and how we handle it.

Your judgement in relation to divorce is wrong. I agree that if someone divorces for any reason other than fornication, they are guilty of adultery if they re-marry, however, I don't agree with the way you say the situation should be handled. There are a couple of key differences between this and homosexual sins.

First, the very act of homosexual sex goes against nature, and God says it is an abomination. It could never be right, even in a committed relationship with the same person for life.

In the case of marriage, differen't things come into play. First is that divorce itself is wrong in the sight of God, not just divorce and re-marriage. Malachi 2:16 "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away:" God hates divorce period. We are not even allowed to separate from our spouce, except by conscent for a time of prayer and fasting. Since I believe that separation and divorce are wrong, to tell someone they must commit the same sins of separation and divorce all over again, and break up yet another home, is just as wrong as was the first unBiblical divorce. Yes, these people need to genuinely repent, or risk eternal damnation, but your council to divorce again and return to their first husband or wife is wrong. Once they re-marry, that original marriage is over for good. Listen to what it says in Deuteronomy 24:1-4

1 WHEN a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

4 Her former husband, which sent her away, MAY NOT TAKE HER AGAIN TO BE HIS WIFE, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

I believe that when God granted divorce through his servant Moses, and said "he hath found some uncleaness in her," this was supposed to mean some type of sexual immorality, not just because he decided he didn't want to be married to her. The religious leaders started teaching this meant anything, and divorce became too common. Jesus set this straight by saying that the only lawful reason for divorce is fornication. If someone does get a divorce and marries someone else, they can never return to their original spouce under any circumstance. This is a worse transgression than the original.

The problem here is that multiple sins come into play. Decisions have been made that make it impossible to write all the wrongs that were done. The only hope for such a person is true repentance, and a committment to remain faithful to the person they are now married to. In the case of homosexuality, the marriage or union was never legitimate in the sight of God to begin with, therefore, the practice must be stopped, period.

I agree the practice must be stopped period.

Your judgement in relation to divorce is wrong. I agree that if someone divorces for any reason other than fornication, they are guilty of adultery if they re-marry, however, I don't agree with the way you say the situation should be handled. There are a couple of key differences between this and homosexual sins.

My only point was we must show the way with lives of sexual purity ourselves. I agree that these second marriages have so many problems that breaking them up would be more sinful than staying together I think your biblical analysis is correct.

My point was when I see a major Evangelical Pastor leave his wife and take up with a new women in his congregation, then leave that congregation and start a new church with his new wife, and now is a big player on TV., I don't see how his testimony to those struggling with homosexual sin is worth very much at all. I don't see people protesting him; I don't see big signs that say God hates fornicators!

It is mainly a matter of how we handle this, not that homosexuality is normal or not sinful, you are right it is against nature and of course sinful. I couldn't imagine being plagued by those desires, but I really feel sorry for those who are.

[RustyAngeL]

Yes, you will go to hell for being homosexual.

Do you believe that homosexuality is worse than other sins?

Steve

Homosexuality is no worse then any other sin. Sin is sin however homosexuality seems to be universally accepted, even some Christians are falling into the trap that they are created that way.

[RustyAngeL]

The ONLY sexual relationship Jesus Christ ever approved was heterosexual monogamy within the framework of commitment in Holy Matrimony. AMEN!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

Right Arthur. You can put any spin on this you want. Call it gay marriage or Civil Union but God calls it sin. We are to respond to the gays as Jesus would. Love the people but hate and reject the lifestyle. This topic has been around the block about a million times but the answer is still the same. It's sin. You won't go to hell because you are gay. You go to hell because you reject Jesus. If you accept Christ then you must accept what His word says and he calls the homosexual lifestyle an abomination to Him. I have known gays that have tried to straddle the fence when it comes to this. I know a man who has accepted Christ yet says he's gay and always will be. He doesn't pratice the lifestyle. I don't buy into that either. God did not create him that way therefore he can be changed by the power of God, but had taken the easy way out. In my mind it's a chosen lifestyle and can be changed if you give yourself over to God.

Without the WORD men do what is "right in their own eyes". I am a firm believer in the Bible and trust the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to me. In a conversation with a close friend who is gay - he said I have been this way since I was born - (how do I know)- so i discussed the pertinent scriptures with him and said something like - because of sin all of creation is messed up - mutations, diabetes, blindness, etc. - Only the Lord really knows what we may be going through but He is righteous and will always forgive our sin if we repent and ask. I then said, You know what, I think God is more concerned about what we want to do than what we do. We cannot just deny Him to indulge in the things of the flesh. I aslo reminded him that, "Greater is He that is in you (me) than he that is in the world."

I was able to have this discussion because we had a relationship based on love and respect not my opinions or his or our own thoughts. I always try to use the Bible as my proof and basically say - don't argue with me, I'm just the messenger. What iif the Bible is true? Debating the WORD, in my opinion, only leads to alienation - I try to show them God's word and leave it up- to the Holy Spirit to reveal to them the truth and to convict them ofther sin.

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I POSTED THE ABOVE EARLIER - CONSIDER THE CONVERSATION.... WHAT I AM POSTING BELOW IS NOT MEANT TO APPROVE HOMOSEXUALITY OR PROVIDE AN EXCUSE TO CONTINUE IN THE GAY LIFE STYLE....

I AM A SCIENTIST (PHD MEDICAL BIOCHEMISTRY) - NOT THAT THAT MEANS ANYTHING - BUT I WORKED YEARS IN BIOCHEMISTRY AND CLINICAL CHEMISTRY AND FEEL THAT GAYNESS COULD BE A RESULT OF SOMETHING MORE THAN CHOICE - (UNPROVEN- YES I AM SURE THERE IS CHOICE INVOLVED BUT THE SEXUAL URGE IN EVEN CHRISTIANS CAN LEAD TO BAD CHOICES) - A RESULT OF MUTATION, ETC. LET ME EXPLAIN. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT SOMEONE WITH DIABETES OR CLINICAL DEPRESSION OR MENTAL DISEASE OR CANCER OF THE STOMACH OR........ HAVE APPARENTLY DONE SOMETHING WRONG OR ARE POSSESSED OR DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH AND SHOULD NOT TAKE MEDICINE - WHICH I GUESS IMPLIES THEY DON'T TRUST GOD. WELL I AM CONFIDENT THAT MANY DISEASES, MUTATIONS, ABNORMALITIES, HORMONAL PROBLEMS...ETC ARE INHERITED, A RESULT OF A MUTATION, A RESULT OF EXPOSURE TO CHEMICALS, ETC AND THEY ARE PRESENT IN NEW BORNS. I HAVE ALSO BEEN IN FELLOWSHIP WITH AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS TRUELY TRANS-SEXUAL... I MET HER AS SAMANTHA AND KNEW HIM LATER AS SAM - HE/SHE WAS BORN WITH BOTH MALE AND FEMALE SEXUAL ORGANS - GENETICALLY HE WAS XYY OR XXY RELATIVE TO HIS CHROMOSOMES - MALES ARE XY AND FEMALES ARE XX. IN ANY CASE AT ABOUT 40 AFTER LIVING A VERY CONFUSED AND HURTFUL LIFE AS A WOMAN HE BEGAN TAKING MALE HORMONES, HAD AN OERATION AND IS NOW LIVING AS A MALE IN A MARITAL RELATIONSHIP OF OVER 10 YEARS. DID GOD CREATE HIM THAT WAY? NO - SEE EXPLAINATION BELOW...

BEFORE, PROVIDING FURTHER DISCUSSION - CONSIDER THIS STATEMENT IN THE ABOVE QUOTE FROM MY PREVIOUS POST, "I then said, You know what, I think God is more concerned about what we want to do than what we do. We cannot just deny Him to indulge in the things of the flesh. I aslo reminded him that, "Greater is He that is in you (me) than he that is in the world." I DID IN FACT ALSO DISCUSS REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS WHICH IF I REMEMBER IS FREELY GIVEN TO ALL WHO APPLY..

WHY IS THERE MUTATION, DISEASE, PAIN, ETC CONSIDER THESE FIVE REASONS:

WHAT ARE REASONS FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING - I WILL POST THIS IN ANOTHER FORUM AS WELL -

1. MY FREE WILL - I CAN MAKE DECISIONS AND CHOICES THAT CAN CAUSE ME PAIN AND SUFFERING, IE, SMOKING, DRUGS, HOMOSEXUALITY, ETC

2. YOUR FREE WILL - I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU AND YOU COULD MEET ME AND DECIDE TO HIT ME OVER THE HEAD WITH A 2X4 BECAUSE YOU WANT MY MONEY. YOUR CHOICE CAUSED ME PAIN AND SUFFERING

3. SIN - THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT BECAUSE OF SIN ALL OF CREATION IS IN A TURMOIL - CONSIDER THE COSMOS BUT MORE CLOSE TO HOME - DISEASE, AGING, DEATH, MUTATIONS, BLINDNESS, ETC. (ROMANS 8:15 - 8:22)

4. SATAN - ROAMS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD SEEKING WHOM HE CAN DEVOUR - I CANNOT EXPLAIN ALL THIS BUT I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT SATAN CAUSES PAIN AND SUFFERING WHEREVER GOD PERMITS HIM TO (CONSIDER JOB)

FINALLY

5. GOD - THE WORD SAY HE CHASTISES AND DISCIPLINES THOSE WHOM HE LOVES (I REMEMBER DAD DOING THAT - IT SURE FELT LIKE PAIN) THERE ARE MANY OTHER TIMES WHEN THE LORD ALLOWED SATAN OR HIS ANGELS TO BRING PAIN AND SUFFERING TO MAN BECAUSE OF THEIR DISOBEDIENCE.

IN THE MEANTIME WE ARE CALLED TO BE LIGHT AND SALT TO BE HIS WITNESSES AND TO SHOW HIS LOVE TO A DYING WORLD. HE IS RIGHTEOUS AND JUST AND WILL DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

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Yes Bob I too have heard people say that when someone comes down with a sickness that it is God's punishment, how ludricus that is. What about the innocent babys and children fighting for their lives with these horrible diseases. My precious hubby of almost 24 year will start chemo next week and I can assure you he did nothing. The fact of the matter is we live in bodies that break down. We will until Jesus comes back and we have our new bodies. Thank you for your post. It was good. And again sorry about the caps thing.

[PBob]

I TO HAVE MANY HOMOSEXUAL FRIENDS, IN FACT, LAST EVENING I SPENT AN HOUR WITH TWO OF THEM AT THEIR HOME TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE - HOMOSEXUALITY AND A POSSIBLE HOUSE CHURCH WHERE THEY COULD FEEL SAFE - THEY ARE GENUINELY INTERESTED.

I have a question for you PBob. These two homosexual friends you speak of, are they actually engaging in sex with members of the same sex, or are they just attracted to the same sex? If they are not acting on their feelings, then I can see your point. If they are actively committing such sinful acts, then why should anyone start a house church where they "feel safe?" The church is for Christians, not sinners. We have evangelists to go outside the body and bring sinners to a place of repentance, and then and only then are they joined to the church. That would be the case not only with fornication, but for any sin. I realize that all churches have members that do things wrong like gossip, for instance, but we are talking about people doing things they know are wrong, and wanting to hold onto it. Even in the case of a gossip, they need to be rebuked, and disciplined if necessary. We don't need to create churches where backbiters, liars, adulterers, etc. feel safe.

If I have misunderstood you, feel free to correct me.

Safe from what? ohmy.gif Safe from repenting of their sin so they can be saved?

Steve

I WILL POST MORE LATER BUT FOR NOW HERE IS MY THINKING. THEY HAVE LIVED TOGETHER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND CONTINUE TO DO SO. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW JESUS, HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY HURT BY "CHRISTIANS" AND I HAVE SPENT 5 YEARS LIVING MY LIFE IN THE SAME TOWN AS THEM - PRAISE GOD WE NOW ARE REACHING A POINT WHERE THEY TRUST OUR RELATIONSHIP ENOUGH TO ASK FOR PRAYER, TO ASK QUESTIONS, AND TO "MAYBE" GET INVOLVED IN A SAFE PLACE (FOR THEM) WHERE THEY WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNED AND RIDICULED BUT WILL BE ABLE TO FREELY AND WITHOUT FEAR EXPRESS THEIR IDEAS AS WE STUDY THE BIBLE AND WHAT THE WORD SAYS. WILL WE START WITH LEVITICUS - PERHAPS NOT - MOST LIKELY THE GOSPEL OF JOHN. THAT MIGHT BE CALLED A HOUSE CHURCH OR JUST A MEETING PLACE - I AM NOT HUNG UP ON THE WORD CHURCH - I HOPE WE AGREE THAT "CHURCH" IS A BODY OF BELIEVERS WHICH MAY IN FACT HAVE SOME WHO ARE SEEKING AND NOT AS MATURE AS THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS.

I GUESS THE USE OF THE WORD CHURCH MAY BE OUT OF ORDER BUT BECAUSE OF EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD AS A PASTOR AND LAY PERSON (PASTOR FOR 8 YEARS NOW RETIRED - PRIOR 28 YEARS IN INDUSTRY) AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN IN "CHURCHES" TO SINNERS WHO ARE LOOKING/SEEKING FOR THE LORD I DESIRE TO MINISTER TO SOME IN MY HOME WHICH WILL INCLUDE OTHER BORN AGAIN SPIRIT FILLED CHRISTIANS. ARE WE WRONG - I DON'T THINK SO. PERHAPS YOU ARE NOT CALLED TO THIS BUT WHEN A RELATIONSHIP IS ESTABLISHED AND THE OPPORTUNITY COMES TO FINALLY GET DOWN TO REALLY BEING ABLE TO BE A WITNESS - THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO KNOW WE ARE CALLED TO DO SO. I AM NOT ALONE IN THIS.

MY WIFE AND I STARTED A "DIVORCE CARE" GROUP SOME YEARS AGO BECAUSE SOME WHO WERE DIVORCED OR IN THE PROCESS WHO WERE COMING TO THE CHURCH WERE BEING REJECTED IN THE "CHURCH" - IT WAS SO PAINFUL FOR US TO SEE HOW UNLOVING "CHRISTIANS" CAN BE WHEN SOMEONE DOES NOT MEET THEIR CODE OF CONDUCT.

I REMEMBER AS A PASTOR SAYING, "IF SOMEONE COMES IN HERE (THE CHURCH BUILDING) WITH SPIKED HAIR, A MINI SKIRT UP TO THEIR NECK AND RINGS IN THEIR NOSE , EARS, EYES AND NAVEL - I WILL PERSONALLY THROW OUT THE FIRST PERSON WHO OFFENDS THEM - WHY BECAUSE WE HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY SHOWED UP OR WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THEIR LIFE. IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT THEY ARE SEEKING THE TRUTH BECAUSE OF THEIR PAIN. THE HOLY SPIRIT MAY BE CONVICTING THEM OF SIN IN TERMS OF DRUGS BUT WE GET ALL EXCITED ABOUT HOW THEY LOOK. OF COURSE IF THEY ARE UNTEACHABLE, THERE TO CAUSE CONFUSION OR TO DEBATE THEY WOULD BE ASKED TO LEAVE. BUT IF THEY LISTEN AND SHOW INTEREST AND CONTINUE TO ATTEND RESPECTFULLY PERHAPS BEING THERE AND SEEING THE LOVE OF CHRIST MAY BE WHAT IS NEEDED.

FURTHERMORE I WOULD TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REACH OUT TO THEM BY VISITING THEIR HOME AND ESPTABLISHING A RELATIONSHIP. THEY WOULD KNOW FROM THE BEGINNING THAT I AND OUR CHURCH DO NOT CONDONE HOMOSEXUALITY AND THAT THE WORD OF GOD CALLS IT AN ABOMINATION. BUT PERHAPS AT THIS STAGE - THEY REALLY DO NOT REALLY KNOW CHRIST NOR DO THEY HAVE CONVICTION OF THE BIBLE BEING THE INSPIRED, INFALLIBLE, AUTHORITATIVE WORK OF GOD.

IF I AM WRONG IN THIS I TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CONVICT ME AND I THANK EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM FOR THEIR POINT OF VIEW - EACH WILL BE PRAYERFULLY CONSIDERED. MAN - COMMUNICATION IS SOMETIMES SO DIFFICULT......java script:add_smilie("","smid_29")

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NUF SED

[eric]

Another perspective and offered in a, hopefully, brotherly fashion. In answer to stevehut..........do you believe that homosexuality is worse than is worse than other sins.

Well I, personally have to look at the consequences of certain sins. eg. although gossiping is sinful, it's not having the same effect on the church itself or the community, so it's hardly in the same category as homosexuality, especially if that gossiper is not a christian. Running out of friends is as bad as it gets for them.

Now, because there is no such a person as a christian homosexual, we have to view them from a different angle. Now we know there a many christians, who have had international respect, who have fallen, casting doubts whether they can or shall be forgiven and of course according to The Word, they can.

What am i getting at? I'll try to explain. The harm that sinning like murder, rape etc have a great impact on a lot of lives, saved or unsaved, but these feeling are usually felt among those in certain areas, like victims, friends and family and those of the perpetrator and the local press and small tows etc etc. The christians will generally forgive and the commotion gradually fades.

Homosexuality on the other hand, though some say it's no worse than any other sin, has an impact on the whole human race, to the extent that it is becoming (slowly) the norm and some christian circles are not only turning a blind eye, but condoning the habit, by starting homosexual churches and pastors. If that's not insulting to the Godhead, what is it.

I get sick and tired of the empathy shown by some christians, not for some individuals, but for the hard core people who embrace this abnormal filthy lifestyle. It is not only harmful to the secular society but also to the christian believers world wide.

If you haven't witnessed, first hand, what some of theses people are capable of doing, well I have and I would sooner sleep in the same room as rats. Collectively they are a threat to the church and the rest of civilisation. Indidually they have to be told the truth.

Anyway that's my rave