Taking Believers to court

[Iryssa]

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.

But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Matthew :15-17

[buckthesystem]

Found these verses a second ago.

Matthew 5:25 "When you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 And if that happens, you surely won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Same words in Luke 12:58

Thought it was interesting and pertinent.

Bib

I have always wondered about this one. How could anyone possibly "pay the last penny" if they were in prison?

This is saying (I interpret it that way anyway) that "handing someone over to the judge" is totally all about revenge, and nothing at all to do with justice. It certainly doesn't solve anything for anybody.

So you don't believe in reporting anything to the police? What about the Capill incident, the vicar handed him over. You believe that was for revenge?

The Capill incident comes under the heading of "something a little different". I guess we're talking about Christians borrowing money from other Christians and not paying it back. Sort of "one to one" incidents. I haven't really followed the Capill case, so don't really know what Capill did or didn't do, but I gather it was rather more serious than that.

[freedfromsin]

What if a Christian doctor [i use the term loosely] causes a person to have medical problems, and ultimately death, because of neglect or mal-practice? Do you just chalk it up to experience?

Forgiveness is one thing. Keeping that person from doing it to someone else is another.

There are human laws that need to be obeyed.

Sorry, I'm just speaking from experience here. I don't think that Christian professionals should be allowed to get away with things just because we are Christians and don't sue other Christians. It's a lame excuse. This is one of those issues that really upsets me. Can you tell?

Even though the Bible tells Christians not to sue Christians, you have an exception that God was most certainly not thinking of when He inspired the penning of the scripture. Had He been thinking, with exceptions such as this, He would have assuredly inspired the Bible worded differently.

You have to be kidding!

[stevehut]

"if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Ah, good point there. Pagans and publicans are proper targets for a lawsuit.

Steve

[Iryssa]

Whoops, just notice that I had a typo in my last post, and managed to miss the chapter reference, even though I got the verses...it shoulda been Matthew 18:15-17.

[AnExample]

This means to settle disputes amongst your brethren. You shouldn't take the matter before an atheist judge. The saints will have some authority in the kingdom of God.

So if someone commits a serious crime (e.g. child abuse or rape) that should biblically stay within the church? This doesn't seem right to me.

If someone commits a crime, a felony or a misdemeanor, cause is brought against them by the state because they violated local, state or federal laws The saved person, as a citizen of this country, is protected by the law. Like paying taxes, we render to Caesar what is his. This also applies to criminal law. Moses was instructed to set up a system of authority (judges) to handle specific causes. This is how our judiciary system is set up in America; however, we should not air our dirty laundry in the courts of the unsaved which is why we are instructed what to do in a personal-level dispute (Matthew 18:15-17). As citizens of the Kingdom of God, we are to obey man's laws, too. If we don't, we are not obeying God. We must be good citizens in both respects.

[AnExample]

What if a Christian doctor [i use the term loosely] causes a person to have medical problems, and ultimately death, because of neglect or mal-practice? Do you just chalk it up to experience?

Forgiveness is one thing. Keeping that person from doing it to someone else is another.

There are human laws that need to be obeyed.

Sorry, I'm just speaking from experience here. I don't think that Christian professionals should be allowed to get away with things just because we are Christians and don't sue other Christians. It's a lame excuse. This is one of those issues that really upsets me. Can you tell?

Even though the Bible tells Christians not to sue Christians, you have an exception that God was most certainly not thinking of when He inspired the penning of the scripture. Had He been thinking, with exceptions such as this, He would have assuredly inspired the Bible worded differently.

God is ominscient! He knows and thinks of everything. For us as believers to think or believe is doesn't is a direct insult to who He is. Remember, He is eternal.

You have to be kidding!

Of course I am kidding.

[Natt]

Found these verses a second ago.

Matthew 5:25 "When you are on the way to court with your adversary, settle your differences quickly. Otherwise, your accuser may hand you over to the judge, who will hand you over to an officer, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 And if that happens, you surely won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Same words in Luke 12:58

Thought it was interesting and pertinent.

Bib

I have always wondered about this one. How could anyone possibly "pay the last penny" if they were in prison?

This is saying (I interpret it that way anyway) that "handing someone over to the judge" is totally all about revenge, and nothing at all to do with justice. It certainly doesn't solve anything for anybody.

So you don't believe in reporting anything to the police? What about the Capill incident, the vicar handed him over. You believe that was for revenge?

The Capill incident comes under the heading of "something a little different". I guess we're talking about Christians borrowing money from other Christians and not paying it back. Sort of "one to one" incidents. I haven't really followed the Capill case, so don't really know what Capill did or didn't do, but I gather it was rather more serious than that.

I was reading too much into the verse

[followerofjesus]

I've noticed some crimes if left to the church they are hidden away public. The church usually wants to maintain church image. How many children have been abused in their care? Also the other problem I have with this in some crimes the accused often reoffends.

Should Christians put a convicted paediophile/rapist on the sex register?

Some could see it is as not showing full forgiveness. Other see it as it protecting potential victims.

Other crimes if forgiven the criminal moves on and doesn't repeat it.

Also if the world see the church hiding serious crimes from the public what does that say to them about Christianity?

These people are not operating out of faith therefore are subject under the law. The law is created for the lawless.