I have a question on God's omniscience.

[KeilanS]

Hi everyone,

I know that God knows everything that is going to happen, so he knows who will accept Jesus and who will not. So my question is why does he create people that he knows are going to hell? I have recently been asked this and I realized that it is largely a question I have no answer for.

Thanks in advance,

Keilan

[notself]

Perhaps it He creates people whom he knows are going to hell to see if things can change.

[billie]

Perhaps it He creates people whom he knows are going to hell to see if things can change.

But He already knows everything. He knows what's going to happen.

[firehill]

He made humankind in His image and that includes having a free will. The question, how come He let those whom He knew beforehand would not respond to His call even be born? Well, what happend to God's free will by asking that question? There is more but am too tired right now.

[eric]

KeilanS, you will no doubt get a lot of responses to your OP, all depending whether they are Calvanist or Arminianist......... I will just tag along and see what happens for a while.

[godrulz]

There are problems with the traditional, classical understanding of God's omniscience and election.

Calvinism (TULIP acronym) makes God responsible for people going to hell by predestining some to heaven and others to damnation. This view makes God's love arbitrary and the atonement limited. Election in Rom. 9-11 is about the corporate election of Israel, not the double predestination of individuals relating to salvation. God desires all men to come to the truth, His love and atonement is not limited. Hell was prepared for the devil and demons originally. Men only go there because they reject God. Their free will makes them responsible, not God.

Open Theism is a move to a more biblical understanding of omniscience. The traditional view is unduly influenced by Platonic philosophy adopted by Augustine and others. In this view, two biblical motifs are recognized: God settles or predestines some of the future that He intends to bring to pass by His ability (Is. 46; 48). Examples include the first and second coming of Christ and righteous judgments. The other biblical motif is that some of the future is open and unsettled and known as possible, not actual. This is the nature of the future. It is not there to know yet. Thus, God does not know nor determine from eternity past who will or will not receive Him. As the person exists and makes choices, the probability factors change. This motif is supported by the fact that God changes His mind or is surprised at things. This is more than anthropomorphism or figurative. It is a revelation of reality. e.g. Hezekiah was a dead duck according to God. In response to believing prayer, God changed His mind (he is personal and free and can do this wisely in response to changing contingencies) and added 15 years to His life. God did not lie in the first pronouncement, but genuinely changed. Modal logic and quantum mechanics are relevant to this discussion.

Other issues include the nature of time and eternity. The Platonic, Augustinian idea is 'eternal now' simultaneity. The Hebraic, biblical picture is that God experiences an endless duration of time (time is not a created thing, but simply duration, sequence, succession...this is experienced even by the uncreated triune Creator before creation and is not a limitation on Him).

The Arminian view is that God has simple foreknowledge and knows who will receive Him without negating free will. The exhaustive foreknowledge of future free will contingencies, however, is a logical contradiction or absurdity. This view is still problematic, like Calvinism's determinism.

Sorry for the technical explanation. It has taken me 25 years of study to know that Open Theism is closest to the biblical truth and least problematic of possible models. Those who think it is heresy generally do not understand the view or misrepresent it or just assume Reformed Calvinism must be true based on deduction or preconceived theology.

I am trying to suggest a more biblical, cogent alternative, and will try to answer questions with those who are willing to critically think through issues rather than blindly accept tradition...just because...

[Guest Annatar: Bringer of Gifts]

How can God know that something IS going to happen if it's NOT going to happen?

If He knows in advance that any person's final destination will be Hell, then that person must actually be born, live a sinful life, die, and end up in Hell. Whether this appears to God as events of the future, or the past, or even transpiring in some golden eternal moment (visualize eternity from the aspect of a timeless God)... it doesn't seem to matter.

How can God know what is not?

[Floatingaxe]

If He didn't create them, they wouldn't have a choice, then, would they? They have to BE to CHOOSE.

[EricH]

Hi everyone,

I know that God knows everything that is going to happen, so he knows who will accept Jesus and who will not. So my question is why does he create people that he knows are going to hell? I have recently been asked this and I realized that it is largely a question I have no answer for.

Thanks in advance,

Keilan

Paul dealt with this very issue in Romans 9

So then it does not depend on human will or effort, but on God who shows mercy. For the Scripture tells Pharaoh: For this reason I raised you up: so that I may display My power in you, and that My name may be proclaimed in all the earth. So then, He shows mercy to whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills. You will say to me, therefore, "Why then does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?" But who are you-- anyone who talks back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" Or has the potter no right over His clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor? And what if God, desiring to display His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? And what if He did this to make known the riches of His glory on objects of mercy that He prepared beforehand for glory--

Romans 9:16-23 CSB

[EricH]

Open Theism is a move to a more biblical understanding of omniscience. The traditional view is unduly influenced by Platonic philosophy adopted by Augustine and others. In this view, two biblical motifs are recognized: God settles or predestines some of the future that He intends to bring to pass by His ability (Is. 46; 48). Examples include the first and second coming of Christ and righteous judgments. The other biblical motif is that some of the future is open and unsettled and known as possible, not actual. This is the nature of the future. It is not there to know yet. Thus, God does not know nor determine from eternity past who will or will not receive Him. As the person exists and makes choices, the probability factors change. This motif is supported by the fact that God changes His mind or is surprised at things. This is more than anthropomorphism or figurative. It is a revelation of reality. e.g. Hezekiah was a dead duck according to God. In response to believing prayer, God changed His mind (he is personal and free and can do this wisely in response to changing contingencies) and added 15 years to His life. God did not lie in the first pronouncement, but genuinely changed. Modal logic and quantum mechanics are relevant to this discussion.

Actually Open Theism is not as you say "more biblical". At its root Open theism teaches that God does not in fact know everything. It teaches that God responds to events with out knowing what will happen. It is unduly influenced by Western notions of freedom and fairness that are not biblical. Calvinism does not state that prayers do not have an impact. It states that God uses them and ordains them to achieve His eternal purposes. All Open Theism has done is limit God's soveriegnty to lift up an unbiblical notion of human freedom