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Is it possible for ANY of Jesus' sheep to go to hell?


nanasimmons

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Guest shiloh357

How many people are turned off to Christianity and refuse to walk into a Church because of scandalous TV preachers? When people hear Christians telling dirty jokes, and find out about Christians committing adultery or stealing money from the petty cash box in the office, does it not reinforce their reasoning for not being Christians?

Ultimately, it is their decision to reject Christ, and they will never be allowed to use Christians' sins as an excuse, but that does not mean that God will not hold Christians accountable for their dirty jokes, their theft, lying adultery and such things that caused the name of Christ to be reproached in the eyes of their co-workers and friends and gave them cause to reject Christ.

So yes, you can turn sinners away from Christ to the point that they will go to their grave rejecting him.

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Well as sheep we must abide, or the wolf can come in and pick us off, one by one. The key is abiding in our faith in Christ.

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There are those who say Millions of unbelievers are going to hell because we keep them from coming to Jesus.

<snip>

Can some one who was given to Jesus,by the Father, go to hell???

I am thinking there is a point that needs to be clarified, as it is adding confusion to the discussion.

The title of the thread refers to Jesus' sheep. "Sheep" as far as I know tend to refer to those who have been saved. Thus the thread by its title seems to be asking, "Is it possible for a saved person to go to Hell?"

The first sentence, however, seems to be asking a separate question. The sentence refers to those that have never been saved - will they fail to obtain salvation because we have done something that keeps them away?

The next question goes back to those that have been saved, can they go to Hell?

The only reconciliation I can find is if the perspective of the questions comes from the perspective of Predestination.

The result is that some posters will see this as a debate over "once saved always saved" and other posters will see this as a debate on Predestination.

Now, I know that the first sentence in your OP is the heart of the matter you wish to address. But I am wondering if your perspective on the issue comes from one of Predestination, because that definitely clarifies a lot.

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The Shepherd will not lose His sheep. Thank God He's the Shepherd. :thumbsup:

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nebula,

The title of the thread refers to Jesus' sheep. "Sheep" as far as I know tend to refer to those who have been saved.

Yes, it does in both instances. One must know and understand the context in how it is being used.

Christ did not save from union. He saved us from the fall. If you don't know or have a correct understanding of the fall, they how do you expect to have the correct understanding of the correction or saving from that fall.

Just to remind you, the fall is death. The judgment against Adam which is inherited by every single human being. Or we are born mortal. That fall precluded man to have union or communion with God which is also known as spiritual life.

Thus Christ saved through the Incarnation all of mankind. All men suffer the penalty of death thorugh Adam. If you believe that Christ is the second Adam, if you believe in the Incarnation, they by default you also believe that Christ redeemed all of mankind. He did so because He created us for a purpose which was to be in union with Him. That is what mankind was restored to, to have communion. Because man was created free, independent of God's will, man is free to choose whom He will serve, obey, be in union with, or not. Very simple really.

If that is the salvation OSAS proponents were actually referring to, then absolutely we cannot lose that salvation. But that salvation was only a prelude to the real purpose of Christ, to enable man to once again have union and have it for an eternity. He is not interested in a creature that will eventually die and cease to exist. That is why, If you read my post earlier, I stated quite emphatically, that if you do not accept that God, through Christ, saved the human race from destruction, namely death, then all the rest of your theology and exegesis all goes down the drain. There is no correlation.

Now, lets get back to John 10. Read the beginning very carefully, Jesus never refers to MY sheep until later in the Chapter. He is refering the the sheep, which is translated, mankind. Those that follow Him are HIS Sheep and He knows them. They know Him. But it takes faith, belief to follow Him. John 6:39-40 is making the same distinction. The distinction is made throughout the NT. John 3:16 makes the distinction. The word World, is cosmos. He loved His creation. He loves mankind, He loves His creatures, who happened to have fallen and are under and extreme judgement of death. Being merciful He redeems all of mankind from destruction and death. Thus simply by His Incarnation, life, death and Resurrection, Christ put the burden of choice back on mankind. We are not going to be subject to death as a result of Adam. We are going to be held accountable for our own free choice of whether to accept or reject the offer of union and communion with Him for an eternity. That is the ultimate salvation, but that was man's purpose of being created in the first place. the Fall and redemption is just a blimp on that journey.

John 3:16 also separates the general from the particular when it states that those that believe shall have everlasting life. When believe or belief, or faith precedes in the context the verbiage of either eternal life, or everlasting life it is referrencing believers. If it does not make a distinction, then eternal life is referencing the general or mankind.

Now, relative to OSAS, the first part, the Work of Christ on the Cross, man has no imput, no say, in the matter whatsoever. He cannot change it, cannot even reject it, it is acomplished, period. However, the call of God to all men to repentance is now possible because God can have an eternal life with man, IF man desires to have that life with Him. God does all He can to influence man to open the door that He is knocking. God cannot, will not, open that door. He cannot because He specifically created man to do just that willingly, obediently. It is a choice and obligation which all men will give an answer to at the judgement.

The first sentence, however, seems to be asking a separate question. The sentence refers to those that have never been saved - will they fail to obtain salvation because we have done something that keeps them away?
There is no such thing as never been saved. It is not even present anywhere in scripture. All men have already been saved from the fall. There are no exceptions. None will be lost to death and the judgment against Adam. Now, once that was accomplished, then God goes about seeking, calling to repentance all men, no exception. All are taught by the Father. All are called by God. No exception.

He has given mankind every means, every ability, and capability to accept that offer. Man cannot offer a single excuse, except ONE. He is not willing to heed the call. He does not desire to heed the call. Man can change that desire either way at any time, several times during his lifetime.

That answer is not a permanent "saved" status. Our faith is a downpayment, the inheritance is being reserved for us at the end, IF we are faithful. The only guaranteed saved believer is a dead believer from this life who was faithful to the end.

The op does ask if we can be responsible for some not believing. Yes, that is a very real possibility. We can cause someone to stumble, but it is not something that cannot be forgiven if one truly seeks forgiveness for that sin. This view of OSAS has that danger built right into the doctrine. It shuns works through faith, thus a person who might think that a simple belief, a one time effort is enough to last a lifetime will find out quite differently at the end.

We are saved ONLY through faith. That is an active faith. An ever ongoing living a life in Christ. Christ never said that we should believe at age 21 and then go about living as every other person it total disobedience to the revelation of God to man in scripture.

The next question goes back to those that have been saved, can they go to Hell?
The answer is no. One that is actually saved, has inherited the full promise, is dead. There is no chance to change that decision. That decision can only be made while alive, either way, or repentance to return if we did in fact fall away at any time.

I might add, that in respect to Christ work on the Cross redeeming mankind, Hell is made a possibility. So, in this respect, your answer would be yes. Redemption of mankind created hell. Without redemption or Christ correcting the fall, all of mankind would all end in death, also known as annihilation, there would be no need for hell. The created order would be a failure. Christ, God would have succumbed to Satan. Death would have been the victor over God and His created order.

The result is that some posters will see this as a debate over "once saved always saved" and other posters will see this as a debate on Predestination.
My understanding is that they are actually the same. One stems from the other. However, even if that were not true, neither is relevant to scripture, none exist in scripture. Both are man-made doctrines that came many centuries after the Apostles and their teaching.
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Umm . . . OK . . . :whistling: . . . thank-you for your input there . . .

But what I was asking for was nanasimmon's perspective - as this was her thread, and I was trying to understand her position a bit better.

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Oh please Lord,............... give me patience. :wub:

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Can some one who was given to Jesus,by the Father, go to hell???

Arminian .... yes

Calvinist ..... no

woot amen :24:

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Can some one who was given to Jesus,by the Father, go to hell???

Arminian .... yes

Calvinist ..... no

woot amen :thumbsup:

Believe we have our free will something that has not been taken from us but that we are responsible for and the walk we move forward in. God will direct our steps but we will take the steps.

joy

:24:

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The Shepherd will not lose His sheep. Thank God He's the Shepherd. :24:

That's right. If we truly are sheep and abide in Him and are known by Him, then the "sheep" are never lost. Only goats!

See my parting verse below...

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