Unsaved

[Emily~Anne]

Not to go off on a tangent but.....

Why do some find it so important to judge if an individual is saved???

Jesus didn't instruct the Apostles to go out and "judge who is saved and who is not". He told them to spread the Gospel to every nation.

Consider this ....

Matthew 13:24-30

He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off.

When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.

The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?'

He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.

Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

It's not our job to separate the saved from the unsaved. God will deal with that in His time.

Peace,

Fiosh

This scripture you posted is not referring to those who call themselves brothers and sisters in Christ yet show bad fruit.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy,an idoaltor or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

[Floatingaxe]

(true story)

I know a guy who sings in the church choir. He does volunteer work helping the older adults in his community. He's an older guy himself; happily married for over 50 years. A very kind, gentle, caring human being. He'd do anything to help you. I've talked to him many times about spiritual things.

He's agnostic.

My guess is that no one at his church would guess it. They all think he's "saved". Go figure?

Peace,

Fiosh

Well he wouldn't be in a choir in our church! You can't minister unless you demnstrate the fruit of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, and are walking in Christ. It is the job of the Church to know, in order to keep the Church from becoming weak and ineffective.

It's your job now, Fiosh to let it be known to your leaders.

[Fiosh]

(true story)

Then again.....

One day I was standing on a street corner in the inner city with my ministry partner. We were watching an interesting scene play out. A male prostitute was having a loud argument with his pimp.(we could tell who they were by what was being said) Lots of expletives flying and anger close to rage.

After the pimp went inside, the male prostitute crossed the street toward us. We called him over and he came. This was a big, Black guy----about 6'2" and 300 pounds. We're both white and shorter than 5' 8".

We talked to him about the reality that he could be forgiven of his sins; that we are ALL sinners, and that I too have to go to my knees every night and repent.

He told us that he was involved in drugs and prostitution and didn't know how to get out, but he hated it and knew it was sin.

The three of us (can you picture this?) stood there on that street corner holding hands, and prayed together. He prayed for strength to leave that lifestyle and we prayed with him.

Driving home that day, I cried tears of joy that I was given the privilege to watch the Holy Spirit work and to be used by Him.

Probably, the local church folks look at this big, loud male prostitute, and see an evil man---a total loser destined for hell.

We saw a confused, broken, hurting child of God reaching out to Jesus for help.

Go figure.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

Not to go off on a tangent but.....

Why do some find it so important to judge if an individual is saved???

Jesus didn't instruct the Apostles to go out and "judge who is saved and who is not". He told them to spread the Gospel to every nation.

Consider this ....

Matthew 13:24-30

He proposed another parable to them. "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off.

When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.

The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?'

He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.

Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

It's not our job to separate the saved from the unsaved. God will deal with that in His time.

Peace,

Fiosh

This scripture you posted is not referring to those who call themselves brothers and sisters in Christ yet show bad fruit.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy,an idoaltor or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

Ok, Emily Ann, then explain to us what Jesus is saying in Matthew 13: 24-30.

[Floatingaxe]

(true story)

Then again.....

One day I was standing on a street corner in the inner city with my ministry partner. We were watching an interesting scene play out. A male prostitute was having a loud argument with his pimp.(we could tell who they were by what was being said) Lots of expletives flying and anger close to rage.

After the pimp went inside, the male prostitute crossed the street toward us. We called him over and he came. This was a big, Black guy----about 6'2" and 300 pounds. We're both white and shorter than 5' 8".

We talked to him about the reality that he could be forgiven of his sins; that we are ALL sinners, and that I too have to go to my knees every night and repent.

He told us that he was involved in drugs and prostitution and didn't know how to get out, but he hated it and knew it was sin.

The three of us (can you picture this?) stood there on that street corner holding hands, and prayed together. He prayed for strength to leave that lifestyle and we prayed with him.

Driving home that day, I cried tears of joy that I was given the privilege to watch the Holy Spirit work and to be used by Him.

Probably, the local church folks look at this big, loud male prostitute, and see an evil man---a total loser destined for hell.

We saw a confused, broken, hurting child of God reaching out to Jesus for help.

Go figure.

Peace,

Fiosh

God bless you for your obedience! And see? You knew by your eyes and ears that what you were dealing with was an unsaved person. Often it is not a hard thing to discern.

[Fiosh]

(true story)

I know a guy who sings in the church choir. He does volunteer work helping the older adults in his community. He's an older guy himself; happily married for over 50 years. A very kind, gentle, caring human being. He'd do anything to help you. I've talked to him many times about spiritual things.

He's agnostic.

My guess is that no one at his church would guess it. They all think he's "saved". Go figure?

Peace,

Fiosh

Well he wouldn't be in a choir in our church! You can't minister unless you demnstrate the fruit of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, and are walking in Christ. It is the job of the Church to know, in order to keep the Church from becoming weak and ineffective.

It's your job now, Fiosh to let it be known to your leaders.

How would you know he was agnostic if he didn't tell you?

He exhibits (or seems to) several "fruits": love, joy, patience, kindness, generosity, gentleness. He is not a drunkard, a liar, an adulterer; in fact, he's a really nice guy.

How would you know???

[Floatingaxe]

(true story)

I know a guy who sings in the church choir. He does volunteer work helping the older adults in his community. He's an older guy himself; happily married for over 50 years. A very kind, gentle, caring human being. He'd do anything to help you. I've talked to him many times about spiritual things.

He's agnostic.

My guess is that no one at his church would guess it. They all think he's "saved". Go figure?

Peace,

Fiosh

Well he wouldn't be in a choir in our church! You can't minister unless you demnstrate the fruit of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, and are walking in Christ. It is the job of the Church to know, in order to keep the Church from becoming weak and ineffective.

It's your job now, Fiosh to let it be known to your leaders.

How would you know he was agnostic if he didn't tell you?

He exhibits (or seems to) several "fruits": love, joy, patience, kindness, generosity, gentleness. He is not a drunkard, a liar, an adulterer; in fact, he's a really nice guy.

How would you know???

That is why I said earlier that you need to be in a one-on-one with people. It's our job to associate with one another in the body. We are not lone rangers in the faith...we must be in relationship with each other to keep each other from getting off into error. It seems as if you were doing what we are supposed to do. Now what do you do with the truth of it? This man needs to be introduced to Christ. If he refuses Him, then he cannot serve.

[Fiosh]

(true story)

Then again.....

One day I was standing on a street corner in the inner city with my ministry partner. We were watching an interesting scene play out. A male prostitute was having a loud argument with his pimp.(we could tell who they were by what was being said) Lots of expletives flying and anger close to rage.

After the pimp went inside, the male prostitute crossed the street toward us. We called him over and he came. This was a big, Black guy----about 6'2" and 300 pounds. We're both white and shorter than 5' 8".

We talked to him about the reality that he could be forgiven of his sins; that we are ALL sinners, and that I too have to go to my knees every night and repent.

He told us that he was involved in drugs and prostitution and didn't know how to get out, but he hated it and knew it was sin.

The three of us (can you picture this?) stood there on that street corner holding hands, and prayed together. He prayed for strength to leave that lifestyle and we prayed with him.

Driving home that day, I cried tears of joy that I was given the privilege to watch the Holy Spirit work and to be used by Him.

Probably, the local church folks look at this big, loud male prostitute, and see an evil man---a total loser destined for hell.

We saw a confused, broken, hurting child of God reaching out to Jesus for help.

Go figure.

Peace,

Fiosh

God bless you for your obedience! And see? You knew by your eyes and ears that what you were dealing with was an unsaved person. Often it is not a hard thing to discern.

I appreciate your kind words, Flo, but you are missing my point.

I am NOT AT ALL saying that I could tell he was/is unsaved.

He knew Jesus already. And by the way he prayed, it was obvious that he had prayed before. What I am saying is that he is a sinner in need of grace---just like me. His sin may be more obvious. But he is grieved by it and wants to stop. At what point does/did he go from being unsaved to being saved???? I dunno.

At what point do I go from being unsaved to being saved?

It's not my job to decide that. I leave it up to God. My job is to share the Truth.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

(true story)

I know a guy who sings in the church choir. He does volunteer work helping the older adults in his community. He's an older guy himself; happily married for over 50 years. A very kind, gentle, caring human being. He'd do anything to help you. I've talked to him many times about spiritual things.

He's agnostic.

My guess is that no one at his church would guess it. They all think he's "saved". Go figure?

Peace,

Fiosh

Well he wouldn't be in a choir in our church! You can't minister unless you demnstrate the fruit of the Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, and are walking in Christ. It is the job of the Church to know, in order to keep the Church from becoming weak and ineffective.

It's your job now, Fiosh to let it be known to your leaders.

He is a seeker drawn to the Truth. My job is to continue to minister to him and to try to bring him closer to Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit working thru me. Maybe Jesus wants him in the choir to feed his soul.

[Fiosh]

Emily Ann and Flo:

How can you tell---specifically---if someone is not saved? What does that look like exactly?

1 Timothy 5 says:

The sins of some men are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them. In the same way, good deeds are obvious, and even those that are not cannot be hidden.

1 Timothy 4: 15-16...

Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Ditto!

Well, yeah, I can quote Scripture, too. But can you explain what it means in concrete terms?