polli Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1968 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I heard a story of a youg girl who snuck out the window in her home and while she was out, she was gang-raped by a group of boys. It was devestating and ripped her apart. However she did get back to life or what seemed like she did on the surface. She went away to college joined a bible study and a church. was a youth leader sang in the choir but really she could never get over the pain of what happened. She tried to seek help from the elders in her church and was told "just recieve Gods grace just do this or this or this. but this was not good enough. She would eventually out of pure desperation take her life. This is what I have come to learn. Just because we have become Christians and are saved doesn't mean that everything automaticly dissappears. In fact I Know first hand how very very strong our soul can be. We need to be renewed with the mind of Christ and somtimes that can take alot of work. Our souls would like to remind us of all those past tramatic facts that we cannot change and do not magically go away when we recieve Christ. Every day you have to renew your mind. I could go into a whole teaching I studied and had a life change that is unbelievable, but back to the topic. I know that I serve a God of grace and He alone knows my heart as He does with everybody. I don't think we can be quick to say Suicide is eternal damnation but I would be very careful in saying that God will forgive you if you do also. Again only God know our hearts. If he created us, and he is the only one who knows the day in which we die then suicide is definately against Gods plan for us. God is pro life!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 30, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Someone can feel so miserable, can be so stuck that he/she wants to go to heaven, so everythign will be over. so that they are with the Lord.... right? so if that's not wrong... than why not kill yourself? It's just a thought i have... so i ask once more, if you kill yourself when you're a christian, you won;t go to hell? and what if you're not sure he/she is saved? How can you be sure he/she will go to heaven or hell? Best to stay alive and be sure you know Jesus. Jesus would be speaking to that person's heart and telling them that they are thinking sinful thoughts. If that isn't happening, then the voice that is drowning out the Saviour's voice is the devil Himself. He wants us to die! If he can convince you that you are going to go home to Jesus, He wins. He would have successfully cut off another of God's army who could have done his kingdom of darkness some harm! Don't fall for the enemy of your soul! We don't live by feelings--they lie to us. We live by the freeing truth of the Word of God. Read it daily! Choose life as God commands! There are wonderful plans waiting for you! Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." I had a very dear friend who commited suicide. Mark was 21, gloriously saved from drugs and in Bible College. He got involved in a church (cult I call it now). Where the minister use to make Mark an example. When he did something right Rev. Mansfield would praise him in front of the congregation. When Mark made a mistake he would make sure everyone knew about it and would say, " don't you all do like Mark here" I begged him go get away from this man, I knew he was trouble when he came to one of our Bible studies, and made a statement that you don't need to ask God for anything because He already knows what you need so don't bother Him." I dissagreed with him and he got very angry and told me to keep quiet. I was stunned and so was everyone else. Mark shot himself and left a note for his wife Vicky. It basically said "I can't be responsible for others making mistakes like me" I was heartsick but I believe my precious brother is in the presence of the Almighty God and that I will see him again. I would not advise suicide. God is more then able to get you through what you need to get through. Fall on Him and expect Him to catch you and to hold on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2007 I heard a story of a youg girl who snuck out the window in her home and while she was out, she was gang-raped by a group of boys. It was devestating and ripped her apart. However she did get back to life or what seemed like she did on the surface. She went away to college joined a bible study and a church. was a youth leader sang in the choir but really she could never get over the pain of what happened. She tried to seek help from the elders in her church and was told "just recieve Gods grace just do this or this or this. but this was not good enough. She would eventually out of pure desperation take her life. This is what I have come to learn. Just because we have become Christians and are saved doesn't mean that everything automaticly dissappears. In fact I Know first hand how very very strong our soul can be. We need to be renewed with the mind of Christ and somtimes that can take alot of work. Our souls would like to remind us of all those past tramatic facts that we cannot change and do not magically go away when we recieve Christ. Every day you have to renew your mind. I could go into a whole teaching I studied and had a life change that is unbelievable, but back to the topic. I know that I serve a God of grace and He alone knows my heart as He does with everybody. I don't think we can be quick to say Suicide is eternal damnation but I would be very careful in saying that God will forgive you if you do also. Again only God know our hearts. If he created us, and he is the only one who knows the day in which we die then suicide is definately against Gods plan for us. God is pro life!!!!! it hard to get along through things such as this. one can never go far enough to get away from the things left in the mind have to contend with. the loneliness and helplessness among other things unsaid is really hard and get mix up. want to feel good but feelings want come bout self time changes things don't know about that to be true. oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2007 It takes having the mind of Christ for those weak ones (whether due to suffering, experience of pain, and whatnot...) to overcome suicide... He here who has the mind of Christ 24/7 cast the first stone! Conforming to Christ in full is the Gospel. Stop, conforming to man's ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polli Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1968 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Definately wish I could say I had the mind of Christ 24/7. But I know you can make a choice to wake up every day and ask that your mind be renewed. LOL! You may have to ask again several times a day for that renewing, but it can be done! However somone who has had such a tragic thing happen may need the constant prayer and encouragement of somone who either has overcome or just has the gift of knowing how to comfort. It wouldn't be easy for such a person to just OVERCOME on thier own. I know I have had great women of God in my life who have walked me through some pretty hard stuff. I did get through. But maybe not for thier constant prayer when I couldn't pray on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2007 thank u polli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2007 Ok...first of all, don't worry.... won;t kill myself. But need to know something about it. When you are saved, or when people say you're saved.... will you go to Heaven when you kill yourself? Dear Thysia, I will only give you my understanding of the sin of suicide using scripture, and hope it gives you an understanding also. Warning, I use more than one sentence to explain my position, and there seems to be an attention deficit among many when reading a post, so I understand if you turn away now SUICIDE First of all, I believe not accepting Christ as your savior is the only sin not forgiven. Israel saw the miracles, heard the living water (the word of God) preached to them, and said that what was preached, and what they saw was of Beelzebub, and they didn't drink, and that was blasphemy. Needless to say they didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah, and will have eternity to regret it. Below we see the history of King Saul's taking of his own life, and these things were given us as examples to show us what God does in our lives also. 1 Samuel chapter 28. Saul is at war with the Philistines and God will not answer his prayer. He seeks a witch at En-dor in verse 7 & 11 to bring up the now deceased Samuel from the dead to answer his questions since God will not. In verse 19 Samuel tells Saul that tomorrow he and his sons will be with him. (In Abraham's bosom.) Samuel was deceased and was in Abraham's bosom described in Luke chapter 16 where he states Saul will join him. In Hebrews 11:32 we see Samuel described as one of the righteous of old, and so we must realize that Saul was also there also. Abraham's bosom was the resting place of the righteous dead, or also known as paradise in the center of the earth until Jesus died and took paradise to heaven. Now if we die as believers our spirit goes immediately to heaven to be with the Lord. The spirits of the unrighteous dead went to lower hell, and still do until the day of judgment. Saul fell on his own sword to kill himself in 1 Chronicles 10:4. Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. 5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise on the sword, and died. 6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and all his house died together. Our salvation does not depend on what we do, but What God did and our accepting of the sacrifice He made for us. I've read many responses stating how certain things send us to hell, while others do not. One states that not repenting before we die condemns us, and some say that we can jump out of God's hand. If you haven't guessed, I believe in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polli Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1968 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I believe that we have to do alot to fall out of Gods grace, if you see in the old testiment God was forever punishing but doing more to get them back "If you just repent I will forgive you" He was always trying to provide a way back. I think we have to have a repentive heart we also have to work out our salvation, meaning of course that its not all done at once but a continual process. I have never thought about once saved always saved, but if you think about it its kind of a non committal idea, to say once I'm saved I'm always going to be saved. I would be fearful of how easily I could fall back into sin, and let me tell you its easy to do. Just let one or two small things slide or compromise just a little, it gets easier and easier each time. I don't think we should take God for granted in that way. I don't think we should be religious, but if we love Him we will want to be like him and will want to do everything we can to be close to him. We cant' be saved and outright sin over and over and expect all will be well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2007 Dear saints of God, believe what you will, but I have no doubt where Saul is because of what God had Samuel tell him. God bless you all in Jesus' name - larry 2 Larry, you are assuming that God actually allowed a witch to conjure up a saint from the grave in the first place. It could just as easily be argued that it was not really Samuel at all, but a demonic spirit posing as Samuel. I know of very few Christians that believe this was really Samuel's ghost. A demonic spirit can pose as anyone, and then give some truth plus some lies. If anything, the words spoken were intended to break Saul in spirit, so he would be discouraged and it would influence him for the bad when he went into battle. The promise of him being with Samuel when he died means nothing if the one speaking to him was an imposter. I don't find this argument very convincing, and also do not believe that anyone remains saved if they commit wilful sins after salvation. The Bible clearly states that if we commit wilful sins after salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for that sin. It is not automatically under the blood. Dear Butero. thank you for your comments. I assume nothing when scripture says something God had written by His prophets, and included in His word. If God used the method in 1 Samuel chapter 28 to tell us something, I could not care if Samuel was a ghost, in spirit, or whatever; I believe it. I do not try to argue scripture against someone using their own reasoning to explain something away. Another thing you say, and I quote you: "The Bible clearly states that if we commit wilful sins after salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for that sin. It is not automatically under the blood." As I told another here, all sin is sin, and James 2:10 says, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. By your thinking, I hope you're prepared for hell, because I could nearly bet you have at sometime willfully sped up to beat a red light, or chose to do one thing wrong somewhere along the way. And worse of all, you changed the word of God at least as I read it. The actual verse you quote, you changed the words in Hebrews 10:26; you added the word "Salvation" For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. To me there is a difference in knowing something, and accepting the salvation provided. May God bless you Butero in your walk with our Lord in Jesus' name - larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted January 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 278 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1962 Share Posted January 31, 2007 If a person is a Christian, and they kill themselves (a wilful and pre-meditated sin), they will lose their salvation and spend eternity in hell. Hebrews 10:26,27 says "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgement, and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." When a person accepts Jesus as their savior, all past sins are under the blood. In addition, sins that are committed without intent, such as an impure thought, or something done with no pre-meditation are under the blood. In the case of something like suicide, that is something a person plans to do, and carries it out. For such sins, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." If it were the case that a Christian that commits suicide goes to heaven, then it would seem that whenever any believer became depressed or had problems in their lives they couldn't solve, they would just simply end it all, and go to be with Jesus. There wouldn't be too many Christians left in this world if everyone did that. The people that hold to the idea a Christian would go to heaven if they committed suicide are those who are die-hard OSAS believers. They are coming from a purely doctrinal stance. On the other hand, I reject the OSAS doctrine, so I don't believe them to be right. This is fine for the purpose of a debate, but when someone actually does commit suicide, the only ones that really know for a fact their fate is that person and God, and they cannot come back from the dead to testify of their condition. For that reason, and since we have had this debate several times already in Worthy with some believing those killing themselves will go to heaven, and some believing they will face everlasting punishment in hell, I wouldn't advise it. Eternity is a long time. Well Butero, we find ourselves on different sides of an issue again. I believed as you do until about 13 years ago when another believer challenged my beliefs concerning the subject of Christians committing suicide. I took several weeks to consider their points and increasingly grew in the conviction that they were right and I was wrong. But because of my growing respect for you, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts